±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 591
Total: 591
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Member Screenshots
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Member Screenshots
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Photo Gallery
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Downloads
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Downloads
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Photo Gallery
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Member Screenshots
57: Community Forums
58: Photo Gallery
59: Member Screenshots
60: Statistics
61: Downloads
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: News
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Home
69: Home
70: Photo Gallery
71: Member Screenshots
72: Community Forums
73: Member Screenshots
74: News Archive
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Statistics
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: News
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Photo Gallery
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Member Screenshots
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Downloads
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Photo Gallery
132: Photo Gallery
133: Downloads
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Your Account
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Photo Gallery
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Member Screenshots
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Downloads
153: Community Forums
154: Downloads
155: Community Forums
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Home
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Downloads
178: Downloads
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Photo Gallery
182: Member Screenshots
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Your Account
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Member Screenshots
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Downloads
198: Photo Gallery
199: Photo Gallery
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Downloads
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Member Screenshots
219: Home
220: Downloads
221: Home
222: Home
223: Downloads
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Member Screenshots
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Home
230: Photo Gallery
231: Photo Gallery
232: Photo Gallery
233: Photo Gallery
234: Community Forums
235: News
236: News Archive
237: Community Forums
238: Photo Gallery
239: Member Screenshots
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Member Screenshots
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Downloads
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Downloads
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Downloads
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Your Account
264: Community Forums
265: Member Screenshots
266: Community Forums
267: Downloads
268: Community Forums
269: Treasury
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: News Archive
273: Member Screenshots
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Statistics
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Home
280: Home
281: Statistics
282: Downloads
283: Community Forums
284: News
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Photo Gallery
288: Photo Gallery
289: Photo Gallery
290: Home
291: Statistics
292: Downloads
293: Photo Gallery
294: News Archive
295: Member Screenshots
296: News Archive
297: Home
298: Home
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Downloads
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Photo Gallery
308: Downloads
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: News
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Community Forums
326: Member Screenshots
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: News
330: Downloads
331: Home
332: Photo Gallery
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Home
340: Community Forums
341: Downloads
342: Community Forums
343: Member Screenshots
344: Photo Gallery
345: Photo Gallery
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Your Account
358: Photo Gallery
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Downloads
365: Photo Gallery
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Downloads
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Downloads
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Your Account
395: Community Forums
396: Tell a Friend
397: Downloads
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Photo Gallery
403: Photo Gallery
404: Downloads
405: News Archive
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: News Archive
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Home
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Downloads
427: Photo Gallery
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Home
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Downloads
434: Member Screenshots
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Home
441: Downloads
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Statistics
446: Home
447: Home
448: Downloads
449: Photo Gallery
450: Community Forums
451: Photo Gallery
452: Statistics
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Home
456: Home
457: Home
458: Home
459: Home
460: Home
461: Home
462: Home
463: Home
464: Home
465: Home
466: Home
467: Photo Gallery
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Downloads
472: Member Screenshots
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: News Archive
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Home
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Home
484: Member Screenshots
485: Downloads
486: Community Forums
487: Downloads
488: Community Forums
489: Member Screenshots
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Home
494: Home
495: Home
496: Photo Gallery
497: Home
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Statistics
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Downloads
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Member Screenshots
512: Community Forums
513: Downloads
514: Community Forums
515: Photo Gallery
516: Photo Gallery
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Search
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: Downloads
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Home
528: Home
529: Home
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Home
534: Member Screenshots
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Downloads
540: Home
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Member Screenshots
552: Home
553: Home
554: Member Screenshots
555: Member Screenshots
556: Community Forums
557: Photo Gallery
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Home
562: Home
563: Home
564: Home
565: Home
566: Your Account
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Home
571: Home
572: Downloads
573: Community Forums
574: Home
575: Home
576: Community Forums
577: Home
578: Member Screenshots
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Home
582: Home
583: Home
584: Member Screenshots
585: Community Forums
586: Home
587: Home
588: Community Forums
589: Home
590: Photo Gallery
591: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3.7in AP Shot
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:23 am
Post subject: 3.7in AP Shot

Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns










Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Zooming in on the 'loading' image reveals a projectile with a flat nose - its more than likely a proof round used to test the gun after manufacture.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
A2_Prius
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand

I assume the 17pdr was considered adequate. I also read recently that the 32pdr At gun that was being developed at the end of the war was based on the 3.7" but the towed version of that gun was a monster to move around. I think in the 32 pdr form it was used in the Tortoise (The British vehicle similar to the T28)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

According to the regimental history of the 2nd Cdn HAA Regt. their 3.7in AA guns were fitted with sights to engage ground targets both by direct and indirect fire. Besides the AA role their training also involved anti-tank drills and artillery shoots.

Looking at the photo closer it dose look like the round is a Flathead. Since these are also solid shot they would be painted black like the AP Shot.



Below are diagrams of the three main types of ammo for the 3.7in AA Guns. First the 3.7in AP Shot Mk 3T, the 3.7in HE Shell and the 3.7in Shrapnel shell.





Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

- A2_Prius
Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.


Several books mention that they were used against tanks during the fall of Tobruk - the regiment responsible for the air defence of the harbour held off rommels panzers for several hours until they ran out of ammunition. The ammunition in question was unfuzed HE (normal HE round with transit plug fitted in place of fuze) apparently...

The unit in question IIRC was 68 HAA Regt RA and I think the Peter Cochrane book mentions it.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:03 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

- bsmart
No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand.


There were different models of the 3.7in AA gun going up to the Mark 6. There were both static and mobile types. It sounds like the guns sighted along the Suez Canal may have been static types. The 2Cdn.HAA Regimental states that “…in Africa; the gunners with the 8th Army had also on occasion used their 3.7 guns against enemy columns and concentrations.�

In NWE the 3.7in AA guns were most often used in the field artillery role, especially for counter battery and counter mortar shoots. I have heard one report that the British had used their 3.7in AA guns to snipe at German tanks across the Rhine River in 1945.

Note that 3.7in AA guns were also manufactured in Canada and Australia during the war.
Back to top
View user's profile
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Field Marshall Sir Alan Brooke's memoirs include several mentions of visits to demonstrations of 3.7" guns in the anti-tank role. If I remember correctly, the demonstrations mainly took place prior to the introduction of the 17pdr.

Perhaps while the anti-tank potential of the 3.7" gun was evident, the introduction of the 17pdr eliminated the operational requirement for the 3.7" gun to be used against ground targets.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:21 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

The introduction of the proximity fuze also made them effect against dug-in infantry and they were used in this role in NWE and Burma.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:11 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="J.McGillivray"]Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In July 1942 the Canadian Army Technical Development Board commisioned a one-off 3.7 inch SP on a Ram chassis. The gun used was a Mk.II 3.7-inch anti-aircraft gun, on a Mk.III mounting (less its wheels, predictor and other parts below the roller race) made by General Electric in Peterborough Ont. Aside from the standard AA sights it had both a No.9 dial sight for indirect fire and a modified No.33 anti-tank sight.
In trials in the UK the Ram 3.7 inch SP was not terribly effective in either an AA or in-direct fire role, but tests carried out on 23 March, 1943 at the Combined Operations School in Poole, showed it performed very well in a direct fire role.

Paper studies were then carried out to look at the feasibility of mounting either a 17-pounder or a 3.7 inch AA gun on the Ram Sexton chassis. The 3.7 inch was deemed to offer marginally (5mm) superior armour penetration out to 1,000 yards, and significantly better beyond that range. A paper study was also done for a 3.7 inch as an assault gun mounted on an M4 chassis, for use against beach fortifications. Neither of these studies got beyond the drawing board but do show that the 3.7 inch AA gun was seen as potentially ahighly effective direct fire weapon.
For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="Roger_Lucy"]
- J.McGillivray

For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.


I'm waiting for the film version Wink

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I'm waiting for the film version ;-)

8)[/quote]
I wish! There are lots of references to films being taken of various equipment trials, but all that seems to have survived are a few stills- such as this one of the Ram 3.7 inch SP wading ashore during the 23 March 1943 trials at Poole.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

In this article in US Field Artillery Magazine from Jan. 1943 there are references to the British 3.7in AA gun being used in the anti-tank role like the German 8.8cm Flak gun.
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA..._25_27.pdf
Source
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA...chives.htm
Back to top
View user's profile
warddw
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:05 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I have a nice example of the 3.7" AP Ammunition in my collection...let me know if you want a picture posted...
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

It would be nice to see a photo of the 3.7in AP shot.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum