±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 373
Total: 373
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Member Screenshots
06: Member Screenshots
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Statistics
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Member Screenshots
21: Community Forums
22: News
23: Community Forums
24: Treasury
25: Community Forums
26: Member Screenshots
27: Home
28: Member Screenshots
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Home
37: Member Screenshots
38: Photo Gallery
39: Home
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: News
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Statistics
46: Home
47: Member Screenshots
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: News Archive
51: News Archive
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Home
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Photo Gallery
62: Member Screenshots
63: Home
64: Member Screenshots
65: Home
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Member Screenshots
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Member Screenshots
75: Home
76: Photo Gallery
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: News Archive
83: Home
84: Home
85: Home
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Statistics
101: News Archive
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Statistics
106: Home
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Member Screenshots
110: News Archive
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Your Account
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: News Archive
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: News
123: Home
124: Home
125: Photo Gallery
126: Home
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Member Screenshots
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: News Archive
140: Home
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Downloads
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Home
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Home
156: Member Screenshots
157: News Archive
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Home
162: Home
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Member Screenshots
166: Home
167: Home
168: Home
169: Member Screenshots
170: Community Forums
171: Member Screenshots
172: Home
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: News Archive
194: Home
195: Home
196: Home
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Member Screenshots
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Home
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: News Archive
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Home
218: Home
219: Photo Gallery
220: Home
221: Home
222: Home
223: Home
224: Home
225: Downloads
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Member Screenshots
232: Community Forums
233: Member Screenshots
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Member Screenshots
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Home
247: Home
248: Home
249: Home
250: News Archive
251: Community Forums
252: Downloads
253: Community Forums
254: News
255: News Archive
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Home
260: Member Screenshots
261: Downloads
262: News Archive
263: Member Screenshots
264: Downloads
265: Community Forums
266: Downloads
267: Member Screenshots
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Downloads
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Member Screenshots
278: Home
279: Home
280: Home
281: Member Screenshots
282: Member Screenshots
283: Photo Gallery
284: Photo Gallery
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Member Screenshots
288: Community Forums
289: Downloads
290: Home
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Your Account
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Home
303: Home
304: Home
305: Photo Gallery
306: Downloads
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: Home
310: Member Screenshots
311: Member Screenshots
312: News Archive
313: Member Screenshots
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Home
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Member Screenshots
322: News Archive
323: Downloads
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Home
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Community Forums
340: News Archive
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Home
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Home
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Member Screenshots
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Your Account
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Member Screenshots
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Member Screenshots
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Member Screenshots
372: Home
373: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3.7in AP Shot
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:23 am
Post subject: 3.7in AP Shot

Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns










Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Zooming in on the 'loading' image reveals a projectile with a flat nose - its more than likely a proof round used to test the gun after manufacture.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
A2_Prius
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand

I assume the 17pdr was considered adequate. I also read recently that the 32pdr At gun that was being developed at the end of the war was based on the 3.7" but the towed version of that gun was a monster to move around. I think in the 32 pdr form it was used in the Tortoise (The British vehicle similar to the T28)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

According to the regimental history of the 2nd Cdn HAA Regt. their 3.7in AA guns were fitted with sights to engage ground targets both by direct and indirect fire. Besides the AA role their training also involved anti-tank drills and artillery shoots.

Looking at the photo closer it dose look like the round is a Flathead. Since these are also solid shot they would be painted black like the AP Shot.



Below are diagrams of the three main types of ammo for the 3.7in AA Guns. First the 3.7in AP Shot Mk 3T, the 3.7in HE Shell and the 3.7in Shrapnel shell.





Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

- A2_Prius
Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.


Several books mention that they were used against tanks during the fall of Tobruk - the regiment responsible for the air defence of the harbour held off rommels panzers for several hours until they ran out of ammunition. The ammunition in question was unfuzed HE (normal HE round with transit plug fitted in place of fuze) apparently...

The unit in question IIRC was 68 HAA Regt RA and I think the Peter Cochrane book mentions it.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:03 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

- bsmart
No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand.


There were different models of the 3.7in AA gun going up to the Mark 6. There were both static and mobile types. It sounds like the guns sighted along the Suez Canal may have been static types. The 2Cdn.HAA Regimental states that “…in Africa; the gunners with the 8th Army had also on occasion used their 3.7 guns against enemy columns and concentrations.�

In NWE the 3.7in AA guns were most often used in the field artillery role, especially for counter battery and counter mortar shoots. I have heard one report that the British had used their 3.7in AA guns to snipe at German tanks across the Rhine River in 1945.

Note that 3.7in AA guns were also manufactured in Canada and Australia during the war.
Back to top
View user's profile
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Field Marshall Sir Alan Brooke's memoirs include several mentions of visits to demonstrations of 3.7" guns in the anti-tank role. If I remember correctly, the demonstrations mainly took place prior to the introduction of the 17pdr.

Perhaps while the anti-tank potential of the 3.7" gun was evident, the introduction of the 17pdr eliminated the operational requirement for the 3.7" gun to be used against ground targets.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:21 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

The introduction of the proximity fuze also made them effect against dug-in infantry and they were used in this role in NWE and Burma.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:11 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="J.McGillivray"]Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In July 1942 the Canadian Army Technical Development Board commisioned a one-off 3.7 inch SP on a Ram chassis. The gun used was a Mk.II 3.7-inch anti-aircraft gun, on a Mk.III mounting (less its wheels, predictor and other parts below the roller race) made by General Electric in Peterborough Ont. Aside from the standard AA sights it had both a No.9 dial sight for indirect fire and a modified No.33 anti-tank sight.
In trials in the UK the Ram 3.7 inch SP was not terribly effective in either an AA or in-direct fire role, but tests carried out on 23 March, 1943 at the Combined Operations School in Poole, showed it performed very well in a direct fire role.

Paper studies were then carried out to look at the feasibility of mounting either a 17-pounder or a 3.7 inch AA gun on the Ram Sexton chassis. The 3.7 inch was deemed to offer marginally (5mm) superior armour penetration out to 1,000 yards, and significantly better beyond that range. A paper study was also done for a 3.7 inch as an assault gun mounted on an M4 chassis, for use against beach fortifications. Neither of these studies got beyond the drawing board but do show that the 3.7 inch AA gun was seen as potentially ahighly effective direct fire weapon.
For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="Roger_Lucy"]
- J.McGillivray

For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.


I'm waiting for the film version Wink

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I'm waiting for the film version ;-)

8)[/quote]
I wish! There are lots of references to films being taken of various equipment trials, but all that seems to have survived are a few stills- such as this one of the Ram 3.7 inch SP wading ashore during the 23 March 1943 trials at Poole.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

In this article in US Field Artillery Magazine from Jan. 1943 there are references to the British 3.7in AA gun being used in the anti-tank role like the German 8.8cm Flak gun.
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA..._25_27.pdf
Source
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA...chives.htm
Back to top
View user's profile
warddw
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:05 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I have a nice example of the 3.7" AP Ammunition in my collection...let me know if you want a picture posted...
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

It would be nice to see a photo of the 3.7in AP shot.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum