±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 652
Total: 652
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Photo Gallery
07: News
08: Home
09: News Archive
10: Downloads
11: Home
12: Member Screenshots
13: Home
14: Downloads
15: Downloads
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Home
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Home
31: Home
32: Downloads
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Downloads
37: Downloads
38: Home
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Downloads
49: Your Account
50: Home
51: Home
52: Statistics
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: News Archive
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Member Screenshots
59: Member Screenshots
60: Downloads
61: Downloads
62: News Archive
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Photo Gallery
67: Downloads
68: Home
69: Photo Gallery
70: Contact
71: Photo Gallery
72: Member Screenshots
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Home
79: News Archive
80: Downloads
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Home
85: Member Screenshots
86: Community Forums
87: Member Screenshots
88: News Archive
89: Home
90: Home
91: Downloads
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Home
96: Photo Gallery
97: News Archive
98: Downloads
99: Community Forums
100: Member Screenshots
101: Community Forums
102: Downloads
103: Member Screenshots
104: Community Forums
105: Member Screenshots
106: Photo Gallery
107: Home
108: News Archive
109: Community Forums
110: Member Screenshots
111: Statistics
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Home
123: Home
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Member Screenshots
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Home
134: Home
135: Member Screenshots
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Member Screenshots
139: Member Screenshots
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: News Archive
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: News Archive
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Member Screenshots
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Member Screenshots
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Downloads
163: Member Screenshots
164: Member Screenshots
165: Member Screenshots
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: News Archive
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Member Screenshots
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: News Archive
182: Member Screenshots
183: Member Screenshots
184: Community Forums
185: News Archive
186: Member Screenshots
187: Community Forums
188: Member Screenshots
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Member Screenshots
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Statistics
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Member Screenshots
203: Photo Gallery
204: News Archive
205: Member Screenshots
206: Home
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Downloads
210: Member Screenshots
211: Member Screenshots
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Statistics
222: Member Screenshots
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Member Screenshots
228: Photo Gallery
229: Downloads
230: Community Forums
231: Downloads
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Member Screenshots
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: News Archive
243: Home
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Member Screenshots
247: Member Screenshots
248: Home
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Member Screenshots
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Photo Gallery
255: Home
256: News Archive
257: Home
258: Home
259: Home
260: Photo Gallery
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Member Screenshots
264: Home
265: Member Screenshots
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Downloads
272: Member Screenshots
273: Photo Gallery
274: Home
275: Photo Gallery
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Statistics
281: Community Forums
282: Member Screenshots
283: Community Forums
284: Downloads
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Statistics
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Member Screenshots
292: Member Screenshots
293: Statistics
294: Home
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: Member Screenshots
298: Community Forums
299: Statistics
300: Member Screenshots
301: Photo Gallery
302: Home
303: Home
304: Statistics
305: Home
306: Home
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: News Archive
310: Community Forums
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Home
315: Home
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Member Screenshots
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Home
338: Downloads
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Member Screenshots
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: News
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Home
358: Home
359: Home
360: Home
361: News Archive
362: Downloads
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Member Screenshots
366: Downloads
367: Home
368: Photo Gallery
369: Member Screenshots
370: Home
371: Home
372: Home
373: Home
374: Home
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: Photo Gallery
379: Member Screenshots
380: Community Forums
381: Downloads
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Contact
385: Home
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Member Screenshots
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Statistics
392: Community Forums
393: News Archive
394: News Archive
395: Community Forums
396: Photo Gallery
397: Home
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Home
401: Home
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Downloads
405: Statistics
406: Community Forums
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Photo Gallery
411: Home
412: Photo Gallery
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Member Screenshots
417: Home
418: Home
419: Photo Gallery
420: Member Screenshots
421: Photo Gallery
422: Home
423: Member Screenshots
424: Member Screenshots
425: Photo Gallery
426: News Archive
427: Community Forums
428: Member Screenshots
429: News Archive
430: Home
431: Downloads
432: Member Screenshots
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Home
438: Home
439: Member Screenshots
440: Member Screenshots
441: Home
442: Downloads
443: Home
444: Photo Gallery
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Member Screenshots
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Downloads
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: News Archive
461: Member Screenshots
462: Community Forums
463: Downloads
464: Community Forums
465: Downloads
466: Downloads
467: Home
468: Home
469: Statistics
470: Member Screenshots
471: Community Forums
472: News Archive
473: Home
474: Member Screenshots
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Member Screenshots
478: Photo Gallery
479: Member Screenshots
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: News
484: Home
485: Photo Gallery
486: News Archive
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Your Account
494: Community Forums
495: Member Screenshots
496: Community Forums
497: Home
498: Member Screenshots
499: News Archive
500: Community Forums
501: Member Screenshots
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Member Screenshots
506: Community Forums
507: Member Screenshots
508: Photo Gallery
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Member Screenshots
513: Community Forums
514: Member Screenshots
515: Community Forums
516: Downloads
517: News
518: Community Forums
519: Home
520: Downloads
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Home
525: Downloads
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: News Archive
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Downloads
532: Member Screenshots
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Downloads
536: Community Forums
537: Member Screenshots
538: News Archive
539: Member Screenshots
540: Member Screenshots
541: Community Forums
542: Member Screenshots
543: News Archive
544: Home
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: News Archive
548: Community Forums
549: News Archive
550: Downloads
551: News Archive
552: Community Forums
553: Member Screenshots
554: Member Screenshots
555: Community Forums
556: Member Screenshots
557: Community Forums
558: Downloads
559: Downloads
560: Community Forums
561: Statistics
562: Community Forums
563: Home
564: Member Screenshots
565: Statistics
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Home
572: Home
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Member Screenshots
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Home
582: Downloads
583: News Archive
584: Photo Gallery
585: Downloads
586: Photo Gallery
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Photo Gallery
592: Home
593: Photo Gallery
594: Home
595: Home
596: Photo Gallery
597: News
598: Home
599: News
600: Community Forums
601: Home
602: Community Forums
603: Home
604: Home
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Home
610: Home
611: Home
612: Home
613: Community Forums
614: News Archive
615: Home
616: Community Forums
617: Downloads
618: Downloads
619: Home
620: Member Screenshots
621: Home
622: Home
623: Community Forums
624: Downloads
625: News Archive
626: News
627: Community Forums
628: Downloads
629: News Archive
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Home
634: Home
635: Home
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Home
639: Member Screenshots
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Home
647: Community Forums
648: Home
649: Community Forums
650: Home
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3.7in AP Shot
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:23 am
Post subject: 3.7in AP Shot

Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns










Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Zooming in on the 'loading' image reveals a projectile with a flat nose - its more than likely a proof round used to test the gun after manufacture.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
A2_Prius
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand

I assume the 17pdr was considered adequate. I also read recently that the 32pdr At gun that was being developed at the end of the war was based on the 3.7" but the towed version of that gun was a monster to move around. I think in the 32 pdr form it was used in the Tortoise (The British vehicle similar to the T28)

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

According to the regimental history of the 2nd Cdn HAA Regt. their 3.7in AA guns were fitted with sights to engage ground targets both by direct and indirect fire. Besides the AA role their training also involved anti-tank drills and artillery shoots.

Looking at the photo closer it dose look like the round is a Flathead. Since these are also solid shot they would be painted black like the AP Shot.



Below are diagrams of the three main types of ammo for the 3.7in AA Guns. First the 3.7in AP Shot Mk 3T, the 3.7in HE Shell and the 3.7in Shrapnel shell.





Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7 in.

- A2_Prius
Was the 3.7 in. ever employed in the AT role fulfilled by the 8.8 cm.? By '43 the Allies were well acquainted with the latter's "dual role" capability, and it seems to me that the 3.7 in. gun probably had the same potential.


Several books mention that they were used against tanks during the fall of Tobruk - the regiment responsible for the air defence of the harbour held off rommels panzers for several hours until they ran out of ammunition. The ammunition in question was unfuzed HE (normal HE round with transit plug fitted in place of fuze) apparently...

The unit in question IIRC was 68 HAA Regt RA and I think the Peter Cochrane book mentions it.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:03 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

- bsmart
No I've read it was specifically not fitted with ground sites when issued to units so that it could not be diverted from it's primary role as an AA gun.

Especially in the desert the role of protecting the base area around the Suez Canal was considered too critical to allow it to be diverted. Between use there and in UK based AA units production could barely keep up with demand.


There were different models of the 3.7in AA gun going up to the Mark 6. There were both static and mobile types. It sounds like the guns sighted along the Suez Canal may have been static types. The 2Cdn.HAA Regimental states that “…in Africa; the gunners with the 8th Army had also on occasion used their 3.7 guns against enemy columns and concentrations.�

In NWE the 3.7in AA guns were most often used in the field artillery role, especially for counter battery and counter mortar shoots. I have heard one report that the British had used their 3.7in AA guns to snipe at German tanks across the Rhine River in 1945.

Note that 3.7in AA guns were also manufactured in Canada and Australia during the war.
Back to top
View user's profile
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

Field Marshall Sir Alan Brooke's memoirs include several mentions of visits to demonstrations of 3.7" guns in the anti-tank role. If I remember correctly, the demonstrations mainly took place prior to the introduction of the 17pdr.

Perhaps while the anti-tank potential of the 3.7" gun was evident, the introduction of the 17pdr eliminated the operational requirement for the 3.7" gun to be used against ground targets.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:21 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

The introduction of the proximity fuze also made them effect against dug-in infantry and they were used in this role in NWE and Burma.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:11 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="J.McGillivray"]Here are some photos of a 3.7in gun being test fired on the ranges in Valcartier Quebec in Feb. 1943. The round being loaded into the gun appears to be painted black indicating that it is AP shot. This appears to be a setup to measure muzzle velocity. Note that the 3.7in AA Gun has a much lower profile when in a horizontal firing position, then the German 8.8cm Flak guns

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In July 1942 the Canadian Army Technical Development Board commisioned a one-off 3.7 inch SP on a Ram chassis. The gun used was a Mk.II 3.7-inch anti-aircraft gun, on a Mk.III mounting (less its wheels, predictor and other parts below the roller race) made by General Electric in Peterborough Ont. Aside from the standard AA sights it had both a No.9 dial sight for indirect fire and a modified No.33 anti-tank sight.
In trials in the UK the Ram 3.7 inch SP was not terribly effective in either an AA or in-direct fire role, but tests carried out on 23 March, 1943 at the Combined Operations School in Poole, showed it performed very well in a direct fire role.

Paper studies were then carried out to look at the feasibility of mounting either a 17-pounder or a 3.7 inch AA gun on the Ram Sexton chassis. The 3.7 inch was deemed to offer marginally (5mm) superior armour penetration out to 1,000 yards, and significantly better beyond that range. A paper study was also done for a 3.7 inch as an assault gun mounted on an M4 chassis, for use against beach fortifications. Neither of these studies got beyond the drawing board but do show that the 3.7 inch AA gun was seen as potentially ahighly effective direct fire weapon.
For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

[quote="Roger_Lucy"]
- J.McGillivray

For more details on these projects see my "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army" Service Publications 2006.


I'm waiting for the film version Wink

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I'm waiting for the film version ;-)

8)[/quote]
I wish! There are lots of references to films being taken of various equipment trials, but all that seems to have survived are a few stills- such as this one of the Ram 3.7 inch SP wading ashore during the 23 March 1943 trials at Poole.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

In this article in US Field Artillery Magazine from Jan. 1943 there are references to the British 3.7in AA gun being used in the anti-tank role like the German 8.8cm Flak gun.
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA..._25_27.pdf
Source
sill-www.army.mil/FAMA...chives.htm
Back to top
View user's profile
warddw
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:05 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

I have a nice example of the 3.7" AP Ammunition in my collection...let me know if you want a picture posted...
Back to top
View user's profile
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 3.7in AP Shot

It would be nice to see a photo of the 3.7in AP shot.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum