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Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

[Okay I thought I sent this a few minutes ago but doesn't seem to have made it through the network to the board]

Along these lines I wonder if TACOM is interested in finding out about vehicles they believe are at places that we have found out are not there? Do they care if there records show an M4 at Hockension DE that we know isn't?

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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

Yes they do, and when you finish the updates to Neil's list I will send it to TACOM, so everyone hit the road this weekend. Seriously, I will send the updated list to them.....I traded Neil's list and my WWI artillery list to them for the tank list.......


BTW any WWI artillery you all see I wouldn't mind a pic and a serial number if you see one
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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

Bob, is there anyway to tell where the Hockension tank went?? or is it just gone? The TACOM list can be really off on old things.....maybe we can keep track of whats not there also....
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:41 am
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

- armyjunk2
Yes they do, and when you finish the updates to Neil's list I will send it to TACOM, so everyone hit the road this weekend. Seriously, I will send the updated list to them.....I traded Neil's list and my WWI artillery list to them for the tank list.......


BTW any WWI artillery you all see I wouldn't mind a pic and a serial number if you see one


Wait a minute we don't work on a 'finish the updates this weekend kind of schedule. I've been flogging it some each day and I'm barely through getting decent contact locations for Pennsylvania & Maryland

What we really need is a process. A point of contact that wants to get updates as they are discovered. That is part of the problem with lists like this (as you well know) They grow stale if not regularly updated. Since I didn't win the MegaMillions last week I can't devote full time to it. I'm making contingency lists so that as I make trips over the next year or so I'll be able to quickly chack and see what short sidetrips I can make to check out some items on the list. There are M60s that JoeD has asked about a year or so ago that are still in the 'To Do' list because I haven't been in that area since.

But I would like to know a way that we can make inputs that will correct mistakes

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

- armyjunk2
Bob, is there anyway to tell where the Hockension tank went?? or is it just gone? The TACOM list can be really off on old things.....maybe we can keep track of whats not there also....


I guess the discussion was in email or onthe G104 list

There isn't an M-4 there it is an M42 Duster. Kurt Laughlin or Joe DeMarco checked it out. Now whether there was ever an M4 there is a question. Like the AL at Roebling NJ. Neil showed theer being an M4 there that I checked out last January. They had an M60 which was also on Neils list butthe couple folks I talked to didn't think they had ever had another tank. I'm sure there are many other cases like this.

There is also the touchy subject of places that have tanks that aren't on the list. Are they not on there because of sloppy record keeping or did the vehicle come from another source? That can be very sensitive with some groups who are afraid that 'The Government may take our tank' And I have heard stories of squabbles between groups and teh Army about who owns a specific tank. It seems that over the years tanks have been put out as monuments in a variety of ways. Often the exact conditions were probably only known (or mis understood) by the people that put it out at the time.

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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:18 am
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

seems the VFW doesn't know the difference between a M4 Sherman and a M42 Duster, they reported a M4 Sherman in good condition. But it will be corrected, good catch.........
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:43 am
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

- armyjunk2
seems the VFW doesn't know the difference between a M4 Sherman and a M42 Duster, they reported a M4 Sherman in good condition. But it will be corrected, good catch.........


Interesting - brings in to question how this list was created.

I assumed when someone in teh Army approved a request for a display vehicle 9or other item) the tasking of TACOM to supply an artefact would cause an entry to be mnade that 'Item X serial number nnn' had been supplied to the organization. that would provide some accountability to the powers that be that someone had accepted custody of the item.

Of course based on hand receipts signed I am probably still 'in posesion of' at least 12 sets of ECM gear for F-15s Rolling Eyes

May be Curmudgions In Armor INC could get a gov't contract to survey, validate, and monitor the tanks that the US Army has placed out on display. If we do it right maybe we can get someone to pay us to go look at tanks

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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

I already suggested that job for me, no funding available
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:19 am
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

But given the current paranoia (excuse me concern) about the possibility of terrorist activity this should probably be funded by the Dept of Homeland Security. After all we wouldn't expect the Army to checkup on themselves would we Rolling Eyes

And this is obviously too big of a job for one person. We need to establish an entire staff People assigned to each field office, a central data consolidation effort, the Documentation and Publishing section. And of course ther has to be a training section to make sure we know what tanks look like as well as a QA section to make sure all the other sections do everything by the book Wink

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Last edited by bsmart on Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:19 am
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

From AR 700-131 (available for download at www.apd.army.mil/pdffi..._131.pdf):

"Commander, TACOM is the responsible official for the Army Donation Program and the Ceremonial Rifle Program and will maintain a central registry for all Army donations under 10 USC 2572."

Neil
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:53 am
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

- bsmart
May be Curmudgions In Armor INC could get a gov't contract to survey, validate, and monitor the tanks that the US Army has placed out on display. If we do it right maybe we can get someone to pay us to go look at tanks


Leave it to the Air Force guy to make sure the funding angle is covered. Wink
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

Bob Wrote:
Wait a minute we don't work on a 'finish the updates this weekend kind of schedule. I've been flogging it some each day and I'm barely through getting decent contact locations for Pennsylvania & Maryland


I know what you mean, I've been going through the list and picking out all the ones I can check on, I've come up with almost 100 between all the states I travel in. Just getting good maps to speed up the procees is time consuming

There is also the touchy subject of places that have tanks that aren't on the list. Are they not on there because of sloppy record keeping or did the vehicle come from another source? That can be very sensitive with some groups who are afraid that 'The Government may take our tank' And I have heard stories of squabbles between groups and the Army about who owns a specific tank.


I usually try to go in uniform (my advantage) which gives me an air of "Officialdom" . There are also quite a few tanks out there that came for the USMC through the Departmant of the Navy, so just because it's not on the list doesn't mean it should be. And yes, some folks can get pretty mad when they think they might loose their tank after they spent some serious money on it. Unfortunately it's no different than receiving stolen property, you still loose. Gotta have some sort of provenance like an antique car to prove how you got it to avoid some serious problems

Joe D
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Crosschecking TACOM list and AFVNews register (Neils list)

- Joe_D

I know what you mean, I've been going through the list and picking out all the ones I can check on, I've come up with almost 100 between all the states I travel in. Just getting good maps to speed up the procees is time consuming

Joe D


One the fields I've added in my 'enhanced list' is a Google Map Reference. I've had pretty good luck grabing the VFW or AL post, City, and state out of the spreadsheet and dropping it in the search for line of google maps. In PA it has come up with a street address about 70% of the time. Then I click the 'link to this place' and copy that entry into a field in the spreadsheet. That way I can go back to the map whenever and get directions or just look at the map. Sometimes I've had to massage the search tring (remove the post # or just look for the town)

After borrowing my Brother in Laws Garmin on the trip to NJ last month I'm thinking about getting one. I wonder if I can figure a way to bulk load all the addresses from the enhanced list or can we get Garmin to make a special Curmudgions edition

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