±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 840
Total: 840
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Home
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Member Screenshots
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Downloads
21: Search
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Member Screenshots
28: Community Forums
29: Your Account
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Downloads
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Downloads
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: News Archive
48: Statistics
49: News
50: News Archive
51: Member Screenshots
52: Statistics
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Member Screenshots
59: Downloads
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Downloads
65: Community Forums
66: Downloads
67: Your Account
68: Home
69: Downloads
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Member Screenshots
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Home
82: Your Account
83: Photo Gallery
84: Downloads
85: Home
86: Your Account
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Member Screenshots
91: Community Forums
92: News Archive
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Downloads
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Statistics
104: Community Forums
105: News Archive
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Member Screenshots
110: Photo Gallery
111: News Archive
112: Member Screenshots
113: Photo Gallery
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Member Screenshots
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Downloads
130: Home
131: News Archive
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Photo Gallery
140: Member Screenshots
141: News Archive
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Member Screenshots
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Member Screenshots
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Member Screenshots
154: News Archive
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: News Archive
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Member Screenshots
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Member Screenshots
193: Community Forums
194: Member Screenshots
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Member Screenshots
201: Member Screenshots
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Member Screenshots
218: Community Forums
219: News
220: Your Account
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: News Archive
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Downloads
240: Supporters
241: Your Account
242: News Archive
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: News Archive
250: Community Forums
251: Member Screenshots
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: News Archive
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Downloads
259: Community Forums
260: Member Screenshots
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Photo Gallery
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Member Screenshots
268: Member Screenshots
269: News Archive
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Member Screenshots
275: Community Forums
276: News Archive
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Member Screenshots
283: News Archive
284: Photo Gallery
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Home
288: Member Screenshots
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: News Archive
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Your Account
299: Member Screenshots
300: Downloads
301: Photo Gallery
302: News Archive
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: Downloads
310: Community Forums
311: Photo Gallery
312: Statistics
313: Community Forums
314: Member Screenshots
315: News Archive
316: Downloads
317: Community Forums
318: Downloads
319: Home
320: Member Screenshots
321: Community Forums
322: Member Screenshots
323: Member Screenshots
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: News Archive
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Community Forums
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: News Archive
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Member Screenshots
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Member Screenshots
343: Member Screenshots
344: Member Screenshots
345: News Archive
346: Downloads
347: Member Screenshots
348: Downloads
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Community Forums
356: Photo Gallery
357: Home
358: News Archive
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Downloads
362: Home
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Home
366: Downloads
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: News Archive
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Your Account
377: Home
378: Downloads
379: Member Screenshots
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Treasury
383: Community Forums
384: Photo Gallery
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Search
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Your Account
398: Member Screenshots
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: News Archive
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: News
410: Community Forums
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Your Account
417: Community Forums
418: Your Account
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Home
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Member Screenshots
427: News Archive
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Member Screenshots
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: Photo Gallery
444: Photo Gallery
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Downloads
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: Member Screenshots
456: Home
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: News Archive
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Member Screenshots
473: Photo Gallery
474: Member Screenshots
475: Downloads
476: Home
477: Member Screenshots
478: News Archive
479: Home
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Community Forums
483: Member Screenshots
484: Home
485: Downloads
486: Member Screenshots
487: Downloads
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Your Account
491: News Archive
492: Photo Gallery
493: Downloads
494: Photo Gallery
495: Statistics
496: Home
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Your Account
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Contact
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Photo Gallery
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Photo Gallery
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Home
532: Photo Gallery
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Home
537: Photo Gallery
538: Downloads
539: Member Screenshots
540: Member Screenshots
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Member Screenshots
544: Photo Gallery
545: Member Screenshots
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Member Screenshots
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Search
557: News Archive
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Member Screenshots
562: Community Forums
563: Photo Gallery
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Photo Gallery
568: Member Screenshots
569: Downloads
570: Home
571: Downloads
572: Community Forums
573: Photo Gallery
574: Downloads
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Home
580: Your Account
581: Home
582: Downloads
583: Community Forums
584: News Archive
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Member Screenshots
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: News Archive
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Photo Gallery
597: Downloads
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Downloads
604: Downloads
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Downloads
612: Community Forums
613: Downloads
614: Community Forums
615: Downloads
616: Member Screenshots
617: News Archive
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Member Screenshots
624: Community Forums
625: News Archive
626: Member Screenshots
627: Community Forums
628: Member Screenshots
629: Community Forums
630: Home
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Photo Gallery
637: Downloads
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Member Screenshots
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Photo Gallery
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Home
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Downloads
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Photo Gallery
656: Community Forums
657: Photo Gallery
658: Photo Gallery
659: Community Forums
660: News Archive
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Member Screenshots
665: Photo Gallery
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Photo Gallery
670: Downloads
671: Home
672: Home
673: Your Account
674: Community Forums
675: Downloads
676: Community Forums
677: News Archive
678: Photo Gallery
679: Photo Gallery
680: Downloads
681: Member Screenshots
682: Member Screenshots
683: Community Forums
684: Photo Gallery
685: Member Screenshots
686: Photo Gallery
687: Community Forums
688: Member Screenshots
689: Home
690: Community Forums
691: Downloads
692: Downloads
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: News
696: Member Screenshots
697: Downloads
698: Photo Gallery
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Member Screenshots
705: Photo Gallery
706: Community Forums
707: Home
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Member Screenshots
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Home
716: Community Forums
717: Your Account
718: Community Forums
719: Member Screenshots
720: News
721: Photo Gallery
722: News Archive
723: Home
724: Community Forums
725: Home
726: Community Forums
727: Your Account
728: Community Forums
729: Member Screenshots
730: Downloads
731: Home
732: Member Screenshots
733: Photo Gallery
734: News Archive
735: Downloads
736: Member Screenshots
737: Community Forums
738: Community Forums
739: Community Forums
740: Member Screenshots
741: Photo Gallery
742: Photo Gallery
743: Community Forums
744: Member Screenshots
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Photo Gallery
749: Community Forums
750: Downloads
751: Statistics
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Community Forums
755: Photo Gallery
756: Photo Gallery
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Photo Gallery
760: Member Screenshots
761: News Archive
762: Community Forums
763: Your Account
764: Community Forums
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Your Account
769: News Archive
770: Community Forums
771: Member Screenshots
772: Home
773: Contact
774: Community Forums
775: Home
776: Member Screenshots
777: Home
778: Home
779: News Archive
780: Community Forums
781: Community Forums
782: Community Forums
783: Community Forums
784: Home
785: Community Forums
786: Community Forums
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums
789: Photo Gallery
790: Community Forums
791: Community Forums
792: Community Forums
793: Community Forums
794: Downloads
795: Member Screenshots
796: Home
797: Community Forums
798: Community Forums
799: Home
800: Community Forums
801: News Archive
802: Community Forums
803: Photo Gallery
804: Community Forums
805: Member Screenshots
806: Community Forums
807: Member Screenshots
808: Community Forums
809: Community Forums
810: Community Forums
811: Community Forums
812: Member Screenshots
813: Photo Gallery
814: Community Forums
815: Community Forums
816: Member Screenshots
817: Downloads
818: Community Forums
819: Home
820: News Archive
821: Your Account
822: Community Forums
823: Community Forums
824: Community Forums
825: Community Forums
826: Your Account
827: Community Forums
828: Community Forums
829: Home
830: Downloads
831: Community Forums
832: Downloads
833: Community Forums
834: Home
835: Home
836: Community Forums
837: Home
838: Community Forums
839: Home
840: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Stryker MGS
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:33 am
Post subject: Stryker MGS

Hi CIA Agents and all other folks!

Found the following photos over at the the US Army mil web site. Looks like the MGS is finally getting into the hands of the crews who will be using them. These photos are of the 1st SBCT, 25th ID at Ft Wainwright.



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7618



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7619

My 2 cents, think of the MGS as an upgrade from the M151 jeep with a M40/106mm RR carring six rounds of HEAT. Don't think of it as a down grade from a MBT.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
mumfordlibrarian
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:37 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane. In fact it was pretty much being slowly taken out of the active force when there was a competition for a new NATO standard strike plane. Lockheed took the basic shape of the F-104 and redisgned everyrhing about it. New airframe, new wings, new cockpit new (upward firing) ejection seat (The original F-104 ejection seat ejected downward, not a good idea for a strike plane that would operate primarily down on the deck). This was designated the F-104G (except in Canada where I think it was the F-104D but I will have to check) The F-104G got a bad reputation early on. It was later figured out that most of the problem was that the plane was much hotter than the F-84s and G-91s that most of the pilots had been used to. As pilot training and experience went up the track record got better. But thinking the late model F-104s that were used as strike aircraft were the same ones as the early F-104C that the USAF used is like saying the M46 and the M60 are both Patton tanks

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


at the 2006 Armor Symposium, I met up with one of my former TC's from one of my tank platoons. An excellent NCO who really knew his stuff. He had been on the MGS for a couple of years. Amoung other things he simply reinforced the point that the MGS, IS NOT A TANK Shocked , and its primary function is 'Infantry Support".

I equated the parallels of its stated mission, to of the Ontos. Totally dedicated to the role of 'Infantry Support'. (Although the Ontos was classified as a 'Tank Destroyer'.

The problem I think is the mistaken belief that the MGS is a subsitute/replacement for the AGS or even the Sheridan.

The Air Force analogy is a bit off. I was actually surprised that Bob didn't write that.... Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

(ROY you are hereby fined 50 COOL points!! Cool Don't let that happen again..!!)

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane.

Shocked Say what? Confused
Bob, this VERY OLD JARHEAD is going to have to bring you up to date on some very old history.

During 1966 into the first half of 1967, an Air Force F104 Starfighter unit based at Da Nang, RVN was sending those birds up with ONE BOMB under each wing.

Also this old Scout must report that during one FTX at Hohenfels FRG, sometime around 1975 or 1976, while conducting Castle Guard for the Battalion TOC, the TOC was attacked by four West German F104s. I would guess that if those German F104s were conducting that type of mission during peace time, they were planning on using those A/Cs for that type of mission against Warsaw Pack AFVs.

I though about using the F4, but I went with the F104 because I feel it is possible the best example of something build to do one thing and commanders turned around and used it for something it could just barely do.

Some of my very old history. Sorry no pictures to help back up my claims. Crying or Very sad
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Not doubting your claims. Let me check a couple sources this evening about the Vitenam connection.

The German connection is no problem. That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability. To bring it full circle the Italians later reworked the F-104G design with new radar and missles into the F-104S which was a primary all weather interceptor that even carried AIM-7 Sparrow missles in addition to the AIM-9 Sidewinders that were always available on the F-104G

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability.


Say what? Shocked Strike Fighter! Shocked Shocked
Will that just shows you all how little I know about things with wings!

I hope you find something on the miss use of the F104 in Vietnam. I know their were not flying CAS missions for the Marines, so I guess they were either going out west or up north.

Time for bed, later folks!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

"G-71 coming to assist element of second platoon, over!" Laughing

(This is an excerpt from a longer article, Joe Baugher is a recognized source, listed at bottom)


"The F-104C (Lockheed Model 483-04-05) was the tactical strike version of the Starfighter. It was designed to meet the needs of the Tactical Air Command (TAC), which had earlier found the F-104A to be unacceptable because of its low endurance and its inability to carry significant offensive payloads.

In April of 1965, a single squadron (the 476th TFS) of the 479th TFW deployed with their F-104Cs to Kung Kuan AB in Taiwan, with regular rotations to the forward base at Da Nang Air Base in South Vietnam. Their job was to fly MiG combat air patrol (MiGCAP) missions to protect American fighter bombers against attack by North Vietnamese fighters. They flew these missions armed with their single M61A1 20-mm cannon and four AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. The effect of F-104 deployment upon NVN and PRC MiG operations was immediate and dramatic--NVN MiGs soon learned to avoid contact with USAF strikes being covered by F-104s. During the entire deployment of the 476th only two fleeting encounters between F-104Cs and enemy fighters occurred.

As the MiG threat abated, the 476th TFS was tasked with some weather reconnaissance and ground attack missions. A few of these were against targets in North Vietnam, but most of them were close air-support missions against targets in the South under forward air controller direction. The F-104s were fairly successful in this role, gaining a reputation for accuracy in their cannon fire and their bombing and capable of quite rapid reaction times in response to requests for air support. During this period, the 476th F-104s maintained an in-commission rate of 94.7%, a testimony both to the quality of 476th maintenance personnel and to the simplicity and maintainability of F-104 systems. However, an F-104 went down during a sortie 100 nm SSW of DaNang on June 29. The pilot was rescued with minor injuries.

The 436th TFS assumed the 476th's commitment in DaNang on 11 July, and the 436th began flying combat sorties the next day. Although a few MiGCAP missions were flown, the majority of the missions were quick-reaction close-air support missions in support of ground troops. On July 23, Capt. Roy Blakely attempted to crash-land his battle-damaged F-104C at Chu Lai. Blakely successfully set his aircraft down gear-up, but died when his F-104 swerved off the runway into a sand dune. "

Source: home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f104_9.html
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Looks like I blew it

I haven't found the book I'm looking for but that's okay. I thought the F-104s had been deployed as Anti Mig cover but not used as attack aircraft. Part of my confusion was mis remembering a picture of an F-106 with a bomb under it's wing that was done as a joke on the commander of Air Defence Command. PACAF F-102s were deployed to Bien Hoa and Da Nang in Vietnam and Udorn and Don Muang in Thailand as Air Defence but eventually withdrawn by 1969 without ever engaging in combat.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes

Oh Doug thanks for reminding me about Joe Baughers aircraft pages. I had been there before but in a series of machine replacements had lost the links. His coverage is excellent. This is his page on the F04s acceptance as a NATO strike fighter.
home.att.net/~jbaugher...04_11.html
He leaves some questions unanswered that are actually well known. Let's just say that there were cases of Bribery involving Lockheed and some European officials that were strong enough that Lockheed now has a VERY STRONG ethics program and annual training about 'Truth in Negotiations', 'Foreign Corrupt Practices' and other ethics courses are now mandatory annual training throughout Lockheed Martin

Oh I found it interesting that of the 722 Starfighters ordered for the USAF only 296 were delivered before the contract was cancelled. The NATO deal was all AFTER that.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- bsmart
.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes



Scouts always stand to be corrected...where you went so horribly wrong was bring to one under fire without keeping in mind that since scouting is their primary function, they normally will not engage unless they know they've got another element in position to bring mutually supporting fire to bear in case it's needed. Laughing ( "G" Troop emerges victorious.)

But hey, you're Air Force, how could you could know? Don on the other hand.....(and does this mean Roy gets his "cool points" back? Mr. Green )

I think somewhere in there the article also notes that F104's also got credit for no air-to-air kills in VN, but that needs to be double checked.

AND....I owe my familiarity with Joe Baugher's pages to....Jeff Button, an 11C turned Transportation (where'd he go, anyway?), so there you go...we be's multidiciplinary at the AFV DG!


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


There already are several 'floating' around the AFV DG.... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Mr. Green

sorry....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


I don't know about swabbies but there is at least one COASTIE in the group (Someone has to be able to do the maritime safety check before we try and swim an M113)

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)


Last edited by bsmart on Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:14 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hello fellow CIA Agents and other folks!

To the TC of G71, super thanks for the overwatching support as I took some time out to get some much needed sleep. Well done Sir! That was some heavy duty intell reporting.

To Dontos, did I lose 50 cool points for talking about things with wings or was because I caught you off guard about the history of the F104 in Vietnam?

As for the subject of "swabbies". Well lets see, they have "V" things that are armored and are used to fight from. I would call those super heavy AFVs and therefor more than qualified to be members of this "multidiciplinary" CIA team.

Thanks for the backup G71! "Allons"
Sgt, Scouts Out1

P.S.
As the number ONE conducter of "Alertness Tests" to see if anyone is paying attention to my "flobs ups" I must say that someone has always been there to correct my misinformation so other members will get the correct facts. For all those times, I thank you all.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum