±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 781
Total: 781
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Photo Gallery
04: Treasury
05: Community Forums
06: Downloads
07: News Archive
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Your Account
13: Community Forums
14: Downloads
15: News
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Home
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Downloads
39: Home
40: Home
41: News Archive
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Home
45: Your Account
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Statistics
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Member Screenshots
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Photo Gallery
61: Home
62: News
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Photo Gallery
68: Your Account
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Your Account
72: Your Account
73: Community Forums
74: Member Screenshots
75: Downloads
76: Community Forums
77: Downloads
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: News
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Member Screenshots
88: Downloads
89: Home
90: Downloads
91: Community Forums
92: Member Screenshots
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: News Archive
96: Statistics
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Your Account
100: Downloads
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Home
106: Home
107: Home
108: News Archive
109: Home
110: News
111: Photo Gallery
112: Your Account
113: Community Forums
114: Tell a Friend
115: Community Forums
116: Downloads
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: News Archive
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: News Archive
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Downloads
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Home
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Downloads
146: News Archive
147: Community Forums
148: Member Screenshots
149: Community Forums
150: News
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Statistics
160: Member Screenshots
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Downloads
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: News Archive
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Member Screenshots
178: Tell a Friend
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: News Archive
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: News
186: Downloads
187: Community Forums
188: Downloads
189: Home
190: Downloads
191: News Archive
192: Home
193: Photo Gallery
194: Home
195: Home
196: Your Account
197: Home
198: Member Screenshots
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: News
215: Community Forums
216: News Archive
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Downloads
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Downloads
225: Tell a Friend
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Photo Gallery
231: News
232: Downloads
233: Home
234: News Archive
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Downloads
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Photo Gallery
244: News Archive
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Downloads
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Downloads
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: News Archive
259: Home
260: Member Screenshots
261: Downloads
262: Community Forums
263: Member Screenshots
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: News Archive
269: Member Screenshots
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Member Screenshots
274: Home
275: News Archive
276: Community Forums
277: Member Screenshots
278: Home
279: Photo Gallery
280: Member Screenshots
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Member Screenshots
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Member Screenshots
289: Member Screenshots
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Tell a Friend
296: Member Screenshots
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Downloads
300: Downloads
301: Community Forums
302: Downloads
303: Community Forums
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Member Screenshots
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Member Screenshots
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Member Screenshots
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Member Screenshots
330: Home
331: Member Screenshots
332: Members List
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Photo Gallery
338: News Archive
339: Home
340: News Archive
341: Member Screenshots
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: News Archive
345: News Archive
346: Community Forums
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Your Account
350: Downloads
351: Member Screenshots
352: Member Screenshots
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Member Screenshots
356: Your Account
357: Member Screenshots
358: Photo Gallery
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Downloads
362: Treasury
363: Member Screenshots
364: Member Screenshots
365: Community Forums
366: Member Screenshots
367: Community Forums
368: News Archive
369: Home
370: News Archive
371: Your Account
372: Community Forums
373: Home
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Member Screenshots
377: Community Forums
378: Downloads
379: Member Screenshots
380: Home
381: Your Account
382: Member Screenshots
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Downloads
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: News Archive
394: Your Account
395: Community Forums
396: Downloads
397: Member Screenshots
398: Community Forums
399: Member Screenshots
400: Home
401: Downloads
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Photo Gallery
406: Home
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Home
415: Member Screenshots
416: Community Forums
417: Downloads
418: Home
419: Downloads
420: Downloads
421: Home
422: Member Screenshots
423: Community Forums
424: Member Screenshots
425: Home
426: Member Screenshots
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Member Screenshots
432: Home
433: Home
434: Your Account
435: Community Forums
436: News Archive
437: Community Forums
438: Member Screenshots
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Member Screenshots
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Downloads
446: Home
447: Home
448: Community Forums
449: Home
450: Downloads
451: Downloads
452: Community Forums
453: Member Screenshots
454: Member Screenshots
455: Member Screenshots
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Member Screenshots
460: News Archive
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Your Account
464: Member Screenshots
465: Your Account
466: Home
467: News Archive
468: Home
469: Home
470: News Archive
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Member Screenshots
476: Community Forums
477: Home
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Downloads
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Your Account
484: Member Screenshots
485: Member Screenshots
486: Member Screenshots
487: Home
488: Member Screenshots
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Home
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: News Archive
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Member Screenshots
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Your Account
508: Home
509: Community Forums
510: Home
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Home
514: Photo Gallery
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Member Screenshots
519: Community Forums
520: News Archive
521: Home
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Home
530: News Archive
531: Member Screenshots
532: Downloads
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Member Screenshots
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Member Screenshots
545: Home
546: Community Forums
547: Member Screenshots
548: News Archive
549: Community Forums
550: News Archive
551: News Archive
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Member Screenshots
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: News Archive
561: Community Forums
562: Downloads
563: Community Forums
564: Home
565: Member Screenshots
566: Member Screenshots
567: Member Screenshots
568: Community Forums
569: Member Screenshots
570: Member Screenshots
571: Community Forums
572: Home
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Member Screenshots
576: Photo Gallery
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Photo Gallery
580: Photo Gallery
581: Member Screenshots
582: Member Screenshots
583: Member Screenshots
584: Member Screenshots
585: Community Forums
586: Member Screenshots
587: Home
588: Statistics
589: News Archive
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: News Archive
595: News Archive
596: Member Screenshots
597: Community Forums
598: Downloads
599: Home
600: Community Forums
601: Home
602: Downloads
603: Community Forums
604: Member Screenshots
605: Photo Gallery
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: News
609: Member Screenshots
610: Home
611: Community Forums
612: Member Screenshots
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Home
617: Community Forums
618: News Archive
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Member Screenshots
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Photo Gallery
625: Community Forums
626: Home
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: Member Screenshots
630: Member Screenshots
631: Home
632: Home
633: Home
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Home
637: Photo Gallery
638: Photo Gallery
639: Community Forums
640: Home
641: Photo Gallery
642: Community Forums
643: Downloads
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Member Screenshots
651: Your Account
652: Community Forums
653: Member Screenshots
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Member Screenshots
660: Community Forums
661: Member Screenshots
662: Community Forums
663: Search
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Photo Gallery
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Member Screenshots
670: Community Forums
671: Home
672: Statistics
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Home
677: News Archive
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Photo Gallery
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: News Archive
686: Member Screenshots
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Home
690: Community Forums
691: News Archive
692: Community Forums
693: Member Screenshots
694: Community Forums
695: Member Screenshots
696: Statistics
697: Member Screenshots
698: Member Screenshots
699: News Archive
700: Member Screenshots
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Home
704: Member Screenshots
705: Photo Gallery
706: Home
707: Member Screenshots
708: Member Screenshots
709: Community Forums
710: Home
711: Member Screenshots
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Downloads
715: Community Forums
716: Your Account
717: Contact
718: Home
719: Home
720: News Archive
721: Community Forums
722: Home
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Supporters
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Home
731: Community Forums
732: Home
733: Downloads
734: News Archive
735: Photo Gallery
736: Community Forums
737: Photo Gallery
738: Community Forums
739: Community Forums
740: Member Screenshots
741: Photo Gallery
742: Your Account
743: Community Forums
744: Community Forums
745: Member Screenshots
746: Community Forums
747: Photo Gallery
748: Photo Gallery
749: Home
750: Home
751: Community Forums
752: News Archive
753: Photo Gallery
754: Downloads
755: Home
756: Member Screenshots
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Community Forums
760: Home
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: Supporters
764: Community Forums
765: News Archive
766: Member Screenshots
767: Home
768: Photo Gallery
769: Member Screenshots
770: Community Forums
771: News Archive
772: Community Forums
773: Community Forums
774: Community Forums
775: Community Forums
776: Home
777: Photo Gallery
778: Community Forums
779: Member Screenshots
780: Community Forums
781: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Stryker MGS
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:33 am
Post subject: Stryker MGS

Hi CIA Agents and all other folks!

Found the following photos over at the the US Army mil web site. Looks like the MGS is finally getting into the hands of the crews who will be using them. These photos are of the 1st SBCT, 25th ID at Ft Wainwright.



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7618



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7619

My 2 cents, think of the MGS as an upgrade from the M151 jeep with a M40/106mm RR carring six rounds of HEAT. Don't think of it as a down grade from a MBT.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
mumfordlibrarian
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:37 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane. In fact it was pretty much being slowly taken out of the active force when there was a competition for a new NATO standard strike plane. Lockheed took the basic shape of the F-104 and redisgned everyrhing about it. New airframe, new wings, new cockpit new (upward firing) ejection seat (The original F-104 ejection seat ejected downward, not a good idea for a strike plane that would operate primarily down on the deck). This was designated the F-104G (except in Canada where I think it was the F-104D but I will have to check) The F-104G got a bad reputation early on. It was later figured out that most of the problem was that the plane was much hotter than the F-84s and G-91s that most of the pilots had been used to. As pilot training and experience went up the track record got better. But thinking the late model F-104s that were used as strike aircraft were the same ones as the early F-104C that the USAF used is like saying the M46 and the M60 are both Patton tanks

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


at the 2006 Armor Symposium, I met up with one of my former TC's from one of my tank platoons. An excellent NCO who really knew his stuff. He had been on the MGS for a couple of years. Amoung other things he simply reinforced the point that the MGS, IS NOT A TANK Shocked , and its primary function is 'Infantry Support".

I equated the parallels of its stated mission, to of the Ontos. Totally dedicated to the role of 'Infantry Support'. (Although the Ontos was classified as a 'Tank Destroyer'.

The problem I think is the mistaken belief that the MGS is a subsitute/replacement for the AGS or even the Sheridan.

The Air Force analogy is a bit off. I was actually surprised that Bob didn't write that.... Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

(ROY you are hereby fined 50 COOL points!! Cool Don't let that happen again..!!)

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane.

Shocked Say what? Confused
Bob, this VERY OLD JARHEAD is going to have to bring you up to date on some very old history.

During 1966 into the first half of 1967, an Air Force F104 Starfighter unit based at Da Nang, RVN was sending those birds up with ONE BOMB under each wing.

Also this old Scout must report that during one FTX at Hohenfels FRG, sometime around 1975 or 1976, while conducting Castle Guard for the Battalion TOC, the TOC was attacked by four West German F104s. I would guess that if those German F104s were conducting that type of mission during peace time, they were planning on using those A/Cs for that type of mission against Warsaw Pack AFVs.

I though about using the F4, but I went with the F104 because I feel it is possible the best example of something build to do one thing and commanders turned around and used it for something it could just barely do.

Some of my very old history. Sorry no pictures to help back up my claims. Crying or Very sad
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Not doubting your claims. Let me check a couple sources this evening about the Vitenam connection.

The German connection is no problem. That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability. To bring it full circle the Italians later reworked the F-104G design with new radar and missles into the F-104S which was a primary all weather interceptor that even carried AIM-7 Sparrow missles in addition to the AIM-9 Sidewinders that were always available on the F-104G

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability.


Say what? Shocked Strike Fighter! Shocked Shocked
Will that just shows you all how little I know about things with wings!

I hope you find something on the miss use of the F104 in Vietnam. I know their were not flying CAS missions for the Marines, so I guess they were either going out west or up north.

Time for bed, later folks!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

"G-71 coming to assist element of second platoon, over!" Laughing

(This is an excerpt from a longer article, Joe Baugher is a recognized source, listed at bottom)


"The F-104C (Lockheed Model 483-04-05) was the tactical strike version of the Starfighter. It was designed to meet the needs of the Tactical Air Command (TAC), which had earlier found the F-104A to be unacceptable because of its low endurance and its inability to carry significant offensive payloads.

In April of 1965, a single squadron (the 476th TFS) of the 479th TFW deployed with their F-104Cs to Kung Kuan AB in Taiwan, with regular rotations to the forward base at Da Nang Air Base in South Vietnam. Their job was to fly MiG combat air patrol (MiGCAP) missions to protect American fighter bombers against attack by North Vietnamese fighters. They flew these missions armed with their single M61A1 20-mm cannon and four AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. The effect of F-104 deployment upon NVN and PRC MiG operations was immediate and dramatic--NVN MiGs soon learned to avoid contact with USAF strikes being covered by F-104s. During the entire deployment of the 476th only two fleeting encounters between F-104Cs and enemy fighters occurred.

As the MiG threat abated, the 476th TFS was tasked with some weather reconnaissance and ground attack missions. A few of these were against targets in North Vietnam, but most of them were close air-support missions against targets in the South under forward air controller direction. The F-104s were fairly successful in this role, gaining a reputation for accuracy in their cannon fire and their bombing and capable of quite rapid reaction times in response to requests for air support. During this period, the 476th F-104s maintained an in-commission rate of 94.7%, a testimony both to the quality of 476th maintenance personnel and to the simplicity and maintainability of F-104 systems. However, an F-104 went down during a sortie 100 nm SSW of DaNang on June 29. The pilot was rescued with minor injuries.

The 436th TFS assumed the 476th's commitment in DaNang on 11 July, and the 436th began flying combat sorties the next day. Although a few MiGCAP missions were flown, the majority of the missions were quick-reaction close-air support missions in support of ground troops. On July 23, Capt. Roy Blakely attempted to crash-land his battle-damaged F-104C at Chu Lai. Blakely successfully set his aircraft down gear-up, but died when his F-104 swerved off the runway into a sand dune. "

Source: home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f104_9.html
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Looks like I blew it

I haven't found the book I'm looking for but that's okay. I thought the F-104s had been deployed as Anti Mig cover but not used as attack aircraft. Part of my confusion was mis remembering a picture of an F-106 with a bomb under it's wing that was done as a joke on the commander of Air Defence Command. PACAF F-102s were deployed to Bien Hoa and Da Nang in Vietnam and Udorn and Don Muang in Thailand as Air Defence but eventually withdrawn by 1969 without ever engaging in combat.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes

Oh Doug thanks for reminding me about Joe Baughers aircraft pages. I had been there before but in a series of machine replacements had lost the links. His coverage is excellent. This is his page on the F04s acceptance as a NATO strike fighter.
home.att.net/~jbaugher...04_11.html
He leaves some questions unanswered that are actually well known. Let's just say that there were cases of Bribery involving Lockheed and some European officials that were strong enough that Lockheed now has a VERY STRONG ethics program and annual training about 'Truth in Negotiations', 'Foreign Corrupt Practices' and other ethics courses are now mandatory annual training throughout Lockheed Martin

Oh I found it interesting that of the 722 Starfighters ordered for the USAF only 296 were delivered before the contract was cancelled. The NATO deal was all AFTER that.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- bsmart
.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes



Scouts always stand to be corrected...where you went so horribly wrong was bring to one under fire without keeping in mind that since scouting is their primary function, they normally will not engage unless they know they've got another element in position to bring mutually supporting fire to bear in case it's needed. Laughing ( "G" Troop emerges victorious.)

But hey, you're Air Force, how could you could know? Don on the other hand.....(and does this mean Roy gets his "cool points" back? Mr. Green )

I think somewhere in there the article also notes that F104's also got credit for no air-to-air kills in VN, but that needs to be double checked.

AND....I owe my familiarity with Joe Baugher's pages to....Jeff Button, an 11C turned Transportation (where'd he go, anyway?), so there you go...we be's multidiciplinary at the AFV DG!


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


There already are several 'floating' around the AFV DG.... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Mr. Green

sorry....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


I don't know about swabbies but there is at least one COASTIE in the group (Someone has to be able to do the maritime safety check before we try and swim an M113)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])


Last edited by bsmart on Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:14 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hello fellow CIA Agents and other folks!

To the TC of G71, super thanks for the overwatching support as I took some time out to get some much needed sleep. Well done Sir! That was some heavy duty intell reporting.

To Dontos, did I lose 50 cool points for talking about things with wings or was because I caught you off guard about the history of the F104 in Vietnam?

As for the subject of "swabbies". Well lets see, they have "V" things that are armored and are used to fight from. I would call those super heavy AFVs and therefor more than qualified to be members of this "multidiciplinary" CIA team.

Thanks for the backup G71! "Allons"
Sgt, Scouts Out1

P.S.
As the number ONE conducter of "Alertness Tests" to see if anyone is paying attention to my "flobs ups" I must say that someone has always been there to correct my misinformation so other members will get the correct facts. For all those times, I thank you all.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum