±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 291
Total: 291
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Your Account
03: Search
04: Statistics
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Member Screenshots
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: News
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Member Screenshots
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Member Screenshots
22: Downloads
23: Downloads
24: Home
25: Home
26: News Archive
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Downloads
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: News Archive
34: Downloads
35: Downloads
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Statistics
51: Community Forums
52: Member Screenshots
53: Member Screenshots
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Member Screenshots
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Photo Gallery
62: Home
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Member Screenshots
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Member Screenshots
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Downloads
80: Community Forums
81: News Archive
82: Home
83: Home
84: Downloads
85: Home
86: Home
87: News Archive
88: News Archive
89: Downloads
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: News Archive
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Home
101: News Archive
102: News Archive
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Photo Gallery
110: Home
111: Home
112: Downloads
113: Your Account
114: Community Forums
115: Member Screenshots
116: Downloads
117: Community Forums
118: Downloads
119: Community Forums
120: News
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Downloads
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Downloads
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Statistics
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Statistics
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Member Screenshots
141: Member Screenshots
142: Member Screenshots
143: Community Forums
144: News Archive
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Member Screenshots
149: Home
150: Member Screenshots
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Member Screenshots
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Member Screenshots
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: News
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Downloads
175: Photo Gallery
176: Home
177: Downloads
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Member Screenshots
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Photo Gallery
188: Home
189: Home
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Member Screenshots
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Member Screenshots
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Statistics
208: Community Forums
209: News Archive
210: Community Forums
211: Tell a Friend
212: Member Screenshots
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Downloads
216: Photo Gallery
217: Home
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Member Screenshots
226: Downloads
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: News Archive
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Member Screenshots
235: Downloads
236: Home
237: News Archive
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Home
241: News Archive
242: Downloads
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Statistics
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Downloads
250: Home
251: Member Screenshots
252: Home
253: Member Screenshots
254: Downloads
255: Downloads
256: Downloads
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: News Archive
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Member Screenshots
269: Photo Gallery
270: Home
271: Member Screenshots
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: News Archive
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Member Screenshots
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Downloads
285: Downloads
286: Home
287: Downloads
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

- bsmart
Looking at the picture where the guy with the 45 is leaving the track I was reminded of 'Green Army Men (GAM)' It almost looks like someone positioned the GAM they pulled out of the package around the vehicles. The only one we're missing is the one crawling on the ground Laughing


Speaking of .45's, I notice that the holstered ones seem to have white pistol grips, what's up with that?

Other signs that this fight won't last long is that nobody has any web or load-bearing gear on, hence only one magazine is at their disposal, the ejection port door on all M-16's are closed (so they aren't locked and loaded or they're uncommonly assiduous as a group about closing that door after doing so), and the M551 likewise is not prepared to fire a Shillelagh because it's tranmitter door is also closed (probably a good idea anyway). I am surprised to see the dome CVC with the camo and subdued markings. Also, the only guy with a patch on his right shoulder that I can make out on this crappy monitor over here is the one who has apparently been to Korea.

So what is the consensus as to what year this really is?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

And what magazine is at their disposal? If you look close there isn't a single M-16 with a magazine in the weapon! I guess they don't have to worry about mis-feeds that way Rolling Eyes

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

- bsmart
And what magazine is at their disposal? If you look close there isn't a single M-16 with a magazine in the weapon! I guess they don't have to worry about mis-feeds that way Rolling Eyes


Well, there you go...I'm on el crappo computers and monitors with glaring light on the screen in such charming places as hotels in Dresden and the ever scenic Frankfort am Main Flughafen Sheraton so it' amazing I can even find the "y" and "Z" on the keyboard, not to mention seeing such subtle details as you mention! Laughing Oh, to be home with decent light and a real monitor! (and a NEW computer, that Gateway promises is on the way)

I DO see white pistol grips, right? ....or is that an illusion?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:27 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

I agree with the White pistol grips and the @nd ID patch on the Sheridan commanders right shoulder.

You live such a tough life Mr. Green Any side jaunts to museums on this trip?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

- bsmart
I agree with the White pistol grips and the @nd ID patch on the Sheridan commanders right shoulder.

You live such a tough life Mr. Green Any side jaunts to museums on this trip?


You (and I) wish...how about: The 8th annual Dresden Symposium on Autoantibodies: " From Etiopathogenesis to the Prediction of Autoimmune Diseases: Relevance of Autoantibodies" (welcome to my "real life" Rolling Eyes )

I might mention in passing that it does pay the bills and lets me occasionally visit some mighty interesting military sites around the world so it ain't all pain. (some good people, too) Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

The TC with the 2nd ID patch is the only one wearing a combat patch.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

I wonder if those .45's are wrapped in a plastic bag?

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

- Doug_Kibbey




So what is the consensus as to what year this really is?


If I had to put money on it, I'd say `72-`73 timeframe.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:15 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

- tanker2010
- Doug_Kibbey




So what is the consensus as to what year this really is?


If I had to put money on it, I'd say `72-`73 timeframe.


The only aspect of that I wonder about is the camo paint and subdued markings on the vehicles....I was still in during those years and OD with white markings was still the rule, though we were just testing some camo schemes at the Armor Board in '73 that were not yet adopted (and the camo pictured was not one of them).
You'd think at least one VN vet would have made to the unit, since they'd have just left there in about April '72.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:58 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

I got to Germany in July of '73 and this is how our vehicles were painted. I think by '75 all the 11th Cav vehicles had that 'new' paint style. The anti-radar stuff. I agree this couldn't have been '79. In fact, I think by '79 the wooden tower may have been gone.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:36 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

7th Army created it's own scheme around 1971. They were in that scheme when I got there in `76. We repainted our vehicles in the Winter Verdant MERDC scheme in the summer of `77.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

Weeelll,

I was going to wait for Jeff Button to chime in, but since he seems to be absent at the moment... Gentlemen, time to brush up on your ID skills, that is not an M113 we're looking at, but a mortar track those valiant GAM are emerging from- bonus points to whoever can tell us which one. Cool

On a related note, would anybody have the TO&E available for 11 Cav in that timeframe and while still with 7 Army?

Oh, and Corbis gives a 1989 date for the photo with the M551 and the mortar track- we're dealing with real eggspurts there. Laughing



Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:16 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

M106A1 is what the carrier looks like to me. When I was with 3/12 Cav from 73-76 we had 6 M551's, An M106A1 4.2" mortar carrier and an infantry squad in an M113A1. The poor infantry guys always got stuck with all the work details at Graf.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:20 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

- Jens_O_Mehner
Weeelll,

On a related note, would anybody have the TO&E available for 11 Cav in that timeframe and while still with 7 Army?



Jens O.


The guys and site that could help you with that, Jens, are over at:

www.eaglehorse.org

That whole period of the 11th Cav in Germany is what that site is all about. Might be some info already posted if ya' look around. It's a big website.

You might even find some interesting features on, say, M551's and Lingles, if you know where to look. Wink

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Buq-Buq
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:58 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

Hey guys:

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with the Cav TO&Es in Europe from this timeframe. Mark Holloway has indicated that his squadron (3/12 Cav) had what might be described as the "European Cavalry" TO&E. The little pamphlet TC 17-36-2 "Armored Cavalry Platoon: Organization and Techniques of Movement" sums up this organization thusly:

"In the USAREUR cav platoon, the five standard scout vehicles found in a conventional cav platoon have been replaced by three additional Sheridans giving the platoon a total of six. The platoon still has the standard rifle squad." As indicated by the diagrams in the pamphlet, both the platoon leader and the platoon sergeant were mounted in M551s in this "European Cavalry" organization.

According to the Eaglehorse web site (http://www.eaglehorse.org/4_ftx_gunnery/equipment/m551_sheridan/sheridan5.htm — thanks, Doug!), it looks like the 2/14 ACR had the 'standard' cavalry troop TO&E in the early 1970s time frame, with three 'tanks' (M551s) and 5 scout vehicles (M114s): "The actual draw of Sheridans was a straight swap of the recon troop M60s for the M551s; three per platoon, nine per troop and so on. We still had the M114s, five per platoon, and Sheridans at this ratio until I left BK in 1971, what an organization ... Sheridans and M114s!"

On page 6 of the Sheridan section of the web site, it looks as if the 11th ACR changed its TO&E in about 1971-1972 to the "European Cavalry" platoon of 6 M551s, an M106 mortar track, and an M113 with an infantry squad: "During this year immediately prior to the re-flag of the 14th ACR to the 11th ACR, there were important developments in the Sheridan story. In Bad Kissingen and elsewhere, the M114s are turned in and three more M551s were issued to each cavalry platoon. The totals become six per platoon, eighteen per troop and fifty-four in the squadron." Apparently in 1974 this same TO&E still applied: "The three ground cavalry troops of the squadron (all three squadrons of the Regiment) were organized with three recon platoons. Each recon platoon had one M106A1 4.2 inch mortar carrier, one M113A1 infantry squad carrier, and six M551 Sheridans. So each troop has 18 Sheridans, or a total of 54 in the squadron." but was changed slightly soon after: "While I was in the squadron there were two significant changes to the above. We reorganized the recon platoons, replacing the infantry squad with two scout squads. This added an additional M113A1 to each platoon. These scout squads were also fielded with the Dragon medium anti-tank guided missile. We also transitioned from the M551 to the M551A1."

Can anyone else shed any light on this "European Cavalry" TO&E? Russ Vaughan, what was your situation in 2 ACR? By the way, Russ, post more of your pictures, please; I love them.

Smile

Robert Stefanowicz provides an interesting re-telling of the process of turning in the M551s and training the crews to switch over to M60A1s in the spring of 1978 (page 6 of the Eaglehorse web site section on the Sheridan). What Mr. Stefanowicz doesn't discuss is the arrival of all those extra M113s that weren't included in the "European Cavalry" TO&E. I would think that there would have had to have been an influx of new 19D personnel as well.

As a side note, if you haven't checked out the Eaglehorse web site referenced above, and you have even a passing interest in the Sheridan, do so. There is so much wonderful, nuanced information there on the vehicle. It would have been great to have had more stuff like that in the Hunnicutt tome. Thanks to everyone for all of the interesting input.

OK, I'm off.




Mark Neukom
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum