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Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:37 am
Post subject: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

I found this July 2000 newsletter from Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory that appears to say that they make the Abrams side armor. I'm curious why DOE (Department of Energy) is involved in this. Maybe depleted uranium?

newsdesk.inel.gov/pres...ounces.htm

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

I think you hit the nail on the head. Only one source for DU that I know of Smile

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LeeW
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

DOE is branching out as a lot of thier business was atomic weapon design. The national labs are kind of funny beasts. They are government owned but most of the employees (if not all) are contractors. Not to say the above isn't correct but it may just be that they had some material experiance that helped.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

It just seems to me that private industry would be making them.

Maybe the laminated armor has layers of depleted potato skins Wink

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

As I understand it DU is a byproduct of Uranium enrichment done when making Fuel rods and weapon cores. I believe the only places that is done is at DOE reactors (Hanford used to be the big one there are a coupel others I believe) So the working of DU would require skills found primarily at those places. As you mentioned the DOE labs are usually run by contractors although they are gov't owned.

If it was potato skins it would be the IPB (Idaho Potato Board) lab Mr. Green

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

So, can we conclude there is DU in the side armor?

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

Hi Mark! Hi Folks!

- MarkHolloway

So, can we conclude there is DU in the side armor?


Sorry, but this old Scout disagrees.

There was an article in Armor Magazine a number of years ago that id'ed the location of the DU armor within the Abrams. The side skirts were not listed.

The DU plates were added to the Abrams to improve the armored package's ablity to defeat SABOT type rounds.
The side plates don't have enough bulk to have much effect on SABOT type rounds. The side plates are there to help reduce the effects of HEAT type warheads.

We have learned over the years how the turrets that have DU insided them are marked.

The only markings on the side skirts are serial numbers.

Just because we have a company that works under DOE control and guidance does not automatical mean that work equals DU.

My unclassified 2 cents,
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oldertop
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

Maybe because thats were the DOE was working on the developing the atomic powered rocket engine and the Navy trains nuke sub crews...
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

Well it said side armor not side skirt armor. The difference my be significantconsidering how new reports get military details wrong I wonder if turret side or the front angled panels would be side armor to a reporter.

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:09 am
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart
Well it said side armor not side skirt armor. The difference my be significantconsidering how new reports get military details wrong I wonder if turret side or the front angled panels would be side armor to a reporter.


Your post sent me back to the DOE News report for another read.

After rereading it, I have noticed that there is two items of informantion in that report.

1. In the passed, the INEEL had produced over 3,000 armor packages.

That could well mean the DU packages that were added to the M1A1s.

2. The report is talking about expanding the current work force in support of new production.

The reporter used the term "side armor packages" first.
The president of INEEL, Bernie Meyers, also used the term 'side armor work'.

My guess would be the report MAYBE talking about the side armor upgrade (packages) that is part of the TUSK program. Those square box, Bradley looking, layers that mount onto the side plates.

Without more details, I still do not think we are talking about DU armor for the sides of the Abrams.

Another 2 cents,
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:34 am
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

There is one other point in the Article

They were dedicating a 'monument tank'!!!

In the article it talks about a display tank with a plaque.

So Neil if it isn't on your list add another M1 on display in Idaho (I wonder if we can ask them what the serial number is Rolling Eyes )

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Last edited by bsmart on Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Abrams Side Armor From Idaho?

Hi Everyone,

There is possibly another answer. Every M1A2 SEP made from old M1 105mm Hulls needs the armor upgrade. DU wasn't used on M1's until late into the M1A1 series. Earlier M1A1's being upgraded in Saudi Arabia prior to DS and the rest eventually getting upgraded in the US over time. Same goes for the new SEP turrets being made. Side plates are all a matter of perspective. Looking down from an aerial view every vertical armor plate on a tank is a side plate as opposed to a bottom or top. The neat thing about the M1 system is the armor package can be upgraded or tailored to the users needs (Some folks don't want DU, others aren't allowed to have them). Granted it's a major undertaking but when they rebuild them in Anniston it's just another step.

Joe D
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