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Portugal introduces PANDUR II
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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buglerbilly
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:12 pm
Post subject: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

Hey guys,

A few images of the new PANDUR II just enetering service with the Portugese Army and Marines..........via friend JQT at T5C............

Tuesday, the Portuguese Army received the first Pandur II 8x8s, 7 of the ICV variant, from the local license-maker Fabrequipa. In October, 5 more, Steyr-made will be received. The Fabrequipa production line got ahead of schedule and delivered before Steyr, contrarily to plans. It is expected that next year it will produce 8 Pandurs per month.

These first vehicles were 100% sucessful in the making, with absolutely no flaws detected in both quality control and Army acceptance tests. Not bad considering it's a trailer making company with no previous experience in military vehicles.

In the occasion, Fabrequipa announced they will open an add-on armour production line, develop a family of 4x4 to 8x8 vehicles, and a 4x4 protected vehicle equivalent to the Mowag Eagle.

With regards,

JQT








Regards,

BUG
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A2_Prius
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

What's the slatted object on the right front corner of the vehicle?
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buglerbilly
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

Others around here can tell you better than me but I believe its part of an I/D system using IIR-obvious finishes. In other words the panels stand out when viewed thru Attack Helicopter and aircraft/UAV systems.............

Regards,

BUG
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:18 am
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

Hi Bug! Hi Folks!

- buglerbilly

Others around here can tell you better than me but I believe its part of an I/D system using IIR-obvious finishes. In other words the panels stand out when viewed thru Attack Helicopter and aircraft/UAV systems.............


Like Bug said, it's a device that can be seen by thermal imaging devices which are part of all state of the art Fire Control Systems (FCS). Thermal imaging gun sights are used on just about everything, not just aerial platfroms.
They help reduce blue on blue shooting accidents.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:43 am
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bug! Hi Folks!

- buglerbilly

Others around here can tell you better than me but I believe its part of an I/D system using IIR-obvious finishes. In other words the panels stand out when viewed thru Attack Helicopter and aircraft/UAV systems.............


Like Bug said, it's a device that can be seen by thermal imaging devices which are part of all state of the art Fire Control Systems (FCS). Thermal imaging gun sights are used on just about everything, not just aerial platfroms.
They help reduce blue on blue shooting accidents.

Sgt, Scouts Out!


They are called CIP's ( Combat Identification Panel).



They can be seen on the turret of this tank.

Don
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:33 am
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

Is there anything special about the CIPs? In other words, is there anything to stop the enemy attaching some to his tanks and looking like a friendly? When I was on tanks we had nothing like that.

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

Hi Trevor! Hi Folks!

- TrevorLarkum

Is there anything special about the CIPs? In other words, is there anything to stop the enemy attaching some to his tanks and looking like a friendly?


So far only NATO units are using them, however the CIP's are mounted using Velco (on US vehicles) and can be pulled off by the crew and the direction of the slatts can be changed.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

In some units I was in they modified the signature they put out. This was put out in our TAC SOP's. Without getting into specifics some ID systems we used could actually tell you the exact vehicle in the Battalion.

Joe D
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

I guess they get customised a bit (e.g. removing slats) so they are a more precise form of identification. Understood, thanks. Quite a clever idea.

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Last edited by TrevorLarkum on Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

BTW,

Welcome to the forum

Joe D
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

Good to be here. I new George in the old days, and I recognise many of the names here, but I only recently found out this site existed.

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

George is on the board, but he is very close mouthed and hardly ever speaks up. The paper AFV News still comes out, but this forum and the earlier one have a speed of exchange that makes the paper version literally old news.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
George is on the board, but he is very close mouthed and hardly ever speaks up. The paper AFV News still comes out, but this forum and the earlier one have a speed of exchange that makes the paper version literally old news.


Well, hold on now....

George checks in, but I think he's on record as noting that he participates more on some 1:48 modeling boards now like the:


www.network54.com/Forum/433829/

...and has done some reviews at Warwheels.
As to the print version of AFVNews being "old news", well, I must take issue with that....it's value is primarily in the detailed articles it provides, it's not really a "newsletter" in the classic sense, but more of a magazine, in my view. It has some nicely detailed articles on various esoteric topics that you'd never see presented in coherent detail on this forum in anything like the same organized fashion, if at all. I still subscribe and would encourage all the members here to do the same, which is why the AFV News logo appears in the upper right alternating with the Sheridan (with which it shares the link) and is displayed if you use the "AFV motif" as described in the "sticky" thread at the top of the forum.

This forum is merely the Discussion Group of the AFV News of George's site and always has been. It only relocated over here after the great Spam 'Bot attack of '05 that drove us off the open 'net (to the regret of many, including me, but it was unavoidable after 250,000 spam messages).

And that's the background for those playing "catch up"....
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

I certainly remember AFV News with affection and I'd definitely be interested in restarting my subscription. I'd be the first to say there's value in a publication you can hold in your hand rather than some temporary data on the Internet (hence my books). Maybe I'm just old fashioned. Or just old!

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buglerbilly
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:03 am
Post subject: Re: Portugal introduces PANDUR II

A couple of more images...........first an Internal shot............



A version still to be finalised with a 105mm cannon but manned turret-mounted................



The turret is the Cockerill CT-CV 105mm version, details here........

CT-CV WEAPON SYSTEM (105mm)
The CT-CV weapon system is designed to meet the present and future requirements of modern armed forces for powerful weapons on light air transportable vehicles. A series of trials and stringent tests have been conducted successfully and final qualification is underway.

The turret and gun have been completely developed in-house by CMI thanks to its long standing experience in the design of systems specifically adapted for light and air deployable vehicles.

It is a two-man turret armed with the "CV" gun with low recoil force.

The system is compatible with all current NATO 105mm ammunition but the barrel has been designed to be able to fire ammunition with higher pressure as well as smart ammunition and guided missiles.

With a view to complying with specific requirements from customers, CMI Defence has designed a modular system able to integrate alternative sub-systems.

Particular attention has been paid to safety and comfort of the crew. The crew is seated low in the turret to take advantage of the vehicle hull protection. For safety reasons too, the crew and ammunition compartments are independent and separated by a firewall; in addition, crew protection is ensured thanks to a safety fuse plate above the ammunition rack.

The system is equipped with an automatic loader which contains 16 rounds in standard configuration and 12 rounds in air-deployable configuration.

The system is ready to fire immediately upon leaving the aircraft and is capable of panoramic observation after 15 minutes. The complete system can be prepared in about 4 hours, including the installation of a pintle-mount or RWS and the fitting of add-on armour.

The sighting system for both the gunner and the commander consists in two identical displays, one for day vision and the other one for night vision. The gunner's sight with laser range finder is stabilised for firing on the move and at moving targets. A panoramic sight gives the commander observation and hunter killer capabilities.

Back up devices are foreseen to allow continued use of the turret in case of loss of electrical power supply.

One of most striking features of this new system resides in its BLOS (Beyond Line of Sight) firing capabilities thanks to a 42° gun elevation, adapted to urban and mountainous warfare conditions as well as allowing firing against airborne targets.

The CT-CV is definitely the most advanced system available today to serve the needs of modern armed forces.


More info on the programme from friend JQT.............

One of the photos shows the proposed MGS model. The turret initially selected was the Oto Melara Histfist 105mm, but it was later found out the Pandur hull wouldn't do well with the recoil. For a time it was considered to drop the MGS version in favour of a "wheeled tank" like the Centauro. But with the new CMI turret all seems to fit now.

www.cmi.be/vpage.php?id=142

The MGS Pandur (60 vehicles, still not ordered) will replace the M60 fleet along with the Leo2s.

Regards,

JQT


ALSO all is not well with Steyr-produced vehicles...............

Recent developments: the MoD suspended yesterday (Monday) the acceptance of the Pandurs. The first six vehicles issued by the Steyr production line, in Austria, were rejected by the Army after acceptance tests: inadequate assembly (namely the steering and transmission systems, hidraulics, and other mechanics) and incomplete assembly (no threat detection system, some of the vehicles didn't even have seats). Apparently, Steyr rushed the delivery to the Portuguese Army because of the contractual deadline, expecting Fabrequipa to finish the job later.

I think there was a similar situation concerning the Chech Pandur contract.

Regards,

JQT


Info is from update to our thread on my usual forum elsewhere, no advertising from me! Cool

Regards,

BUG
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