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Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Patton Museum in the News

- bsmart

The reason we had heavy forces in Europe was never as a staging to go elsewhere. It was to show the Soviets that they couldn't go any further and to prop up strugtlling economies. The economic asspect is long gone. Heavy forces aren't deployable as rapid response forces. The only way that works is to preposition the heavy equipment where you expect to need it and bring in the troops. And you can bring in the troops from their home station.

What Bob said. And putting heavy forces on an island, even a large one like Australia, is hardly a solution to problems elsewhere, you've only narrowed the body of water you have to cross to get there, but you still have water to cross and that's sometning armor is notoriously poor at doing.

If there's to be an "economic aspect", or an environment even remotely likely to be receptive, I'm inclined to think it would be more in central-eastern Europe, such as Romania...and even that is very uncertain. It's also on the Black Sea and that could get very complicated if certain countries chose to make it so.

How'd we get here from the Patton Museum, anyway?

Roy_A_Lingle · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Patton Museum in the News

Hi Folks!

With funding cuts, anything could happien. Only time will tell.

As for Ft Bliss and the reloaction of the 1st AD to here, there is a large area of desert that is being flatten and the consturction doesn't stop for supper. There are a large number of flood lights all over the work area and consturction goes until at least 23:30 hours at night. One of the locations I work at requires me to drive by the area on my way to work around 23:30 and the lights are still on and equipment is moving about.

For those who have been to Ft. Bliss, the consturction area is East of the riding stables area on Biggs Field and extends out to the Purple Heart 375 loop.

The main extrance to Biggs Field is also being reworked into three level interchange to handle 30,000 plus troops coming and going. A four lane overpass is being build connecting Ft. Bliss to Biggs Field so folks don't have to leave one area and go through security to enter the other area.

I have read the reports of BRAC funding cuts, but so far here at Ft. Bliss it looks the money is being spent at a very high rate.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

Dontos

WWII Tank Battle

When: May 26 & 27
Where: Patton Museum of Armor & Cavalry

Easy access off 31w Radcliff, Ky

This is the Annual Living History Event known as:
'The Life of the Soldier'

For More information:
Life of the soldier
Armor for the Ages

Geoff_walden · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 26, 2006 Posts: 133

There was a big article in the Elizabethtown News-Enterprise on Sunday, about design and funding for a new Patton Museum.

www.thenewsenterprise....news03.txt

What bothers me about this article, is what you can read between the lines. Stephen McLean of the Patton Museum Foundation said "To widen the appeal of the museum, exhibits will focus more on stories rather than objects," and "Itâ€™s not just about tanks, ..."

The article again said that duplicates of the tanks and vehicle collection could be on display at the new museum.

This really seems to me to be "bureaucratese" for "the new museum won't be about tanks." It seems that everyone was so relieved at hearing that the Army would not move the Patton Museum to Fort Benning, that we've missed the most likely Army plan - move the armor collection to the new armor museum at Benning, leaving only a token few "duplicates" at Knox.

OK, so the new Patton Museum will still have Shermans, M60A1s, and M1A1s on display. So, people can see vehicles like those in LOTS of places. What do armor buffs come to see at the Patton Museum? How about the world's only Panther II and T28, and the only Tiger II in the Western Hemisphere (just to name three). How about the very first XM1 Pilot Vehicle? Where are the duplicates for vehicles like this, if what's on display now gets moved to Benning?

Now, I'm not suggesting that armor buffs alone are a huge chunk of the Patton Museum visitation, but probably the biggest chunk is families who visit their sons in Basic Armor Training at the Armor School, and that's all moving to Benning. Without the draw of the current premier armor collection, what will the visitation base be then?

Geoff Walden

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Patton Museum in the News

BTW, I see from the Fort Benning Environmental Impact Statement and elsewhere that the moved Patton collection will be called the "National Armor Museum" - as a cousin to the already existing National Infantry Museum.

Here is a description from SAA archaeological record of all places:
www.saa.org/Publicatio...sept06.pdf (page 16)

"In a related action, BRAC is bringing to Fort Benning not only the Armor School, but the National Armor Museum (NAM) as well. Of similar size to the NIM, the NAM and NIM will complement each other and provide an outstanding learning experience. Both will be located just across the street from Columbus State Universityâ€™s Oxbow Meadows Environmental Center, forming a complex that will provide a broadly based and entertaining educational opportunity for both soldiers and the general public."

The Benning EIS mentions the following:
www.hqda.army.mil/acsi...%20EIS.pdf (page 599)

"FY 2009 Projects - A Vehicle Maintenance Shop - to support National Armor Museum
operations will be built on an unforested, 3-acre site south of Eighth Division Road. The majority
of the construction associated with this is on Main Post."

Neil

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Patton Museum in the News

"forming a complex that will provide a broadly based and entertaining educational opportunity for both soldiers and the general public."

Somehow, I don't find a lot of encouragement in that description.

piney · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Patton Museum in the News

sounds more like Disneyland then a respectable museum Sad

Jeff Lewis

PS Welcome home Doug, how was Finland?

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Patton Museum in the News

- piney

sounds more like Disneyland then a respectable museum

Jeff Lewis

PS Welcome home Doug, how was Finland?

Well thank you, but I was only in North Carolina...Finland is February. Brrrr.

supertsar · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Posts: 38

Would be nice if the Ordnance Museum Foundation could somehow piggyback onto this new venture to get their stuff under a roof... even if that roof is in Georgia...
but then again how could I ever convice my wife we need a vacation in Georgia! Sad

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Patton Museum in the News

See the Ordnance Museum thread below. In theory they are getting a new museum (ie including a roof) at Fort Lee... In theory...

Neil

binder001 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 363

Dontos,

Your earlier post mentioned "Life of the Soldier" as being on 5/26-27. This seems to be last year's dates. Have they announced the dates for 2008 yet? Any word on the scenario and what might be running that day?

Thanks, Gary

Dontos · Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: Re: Patton Museum in the News

- binder001

Dontos,

Your earlier post mentioned "Life of the Soldier" as being on 5/26-27. This seems to be last year's dates. Have they announced the dates for 2008 yet? Any word on the scenario and what might be running that day?

Thanks, Gary

Last word I got,.....

There will be only a limited Static Display this year. Sad

No large scale demonstrations or reenactments. Crying or Very sad

I'll forward any new information when I get it. Crying or Very sad

Don

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Patton Museum in the News

Apparently the National Infantry Museum will be closed from February to November while it moves into a new building - although the static vehicle displays will still be there. The article also talks about the move of the "National Armor and Cavalry Museum" & future of the Patton Museum.

Neil

www.armytimes.com/news...m_080128w/

Benningâ€™s old Infantry Museum to close

By Gina Cavallaro - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Jan 29, 2008 11:24:09 EST

The National Infantry Museum at Fort Benning, Ga., will permanently close its doors to the public Feb. 15 to make way for the new infantry museum that is being built from the ground up.

The new museum will be located on South Lumpkin Road, and is scheduled to open Nov. 11, Veterans Day, according to a Fort Benning press release.

The building on Baltzell Avenue housing the National Infantry Museum was built in 1923. It was originally the Fort Benning hospital complex, and was designated as the museum following the opening of Martin Army Community Hospital in 1958.

As part of the base closure and realignment program, the Armor Center will move its headquarters from Fort Knox, Ky., to Fort Benning and will have its own new National Armor and Cavalry Museum.

â€œMany of the tank artifacts will travel with the Armor School when the BRAC move is made to Georgia in the coming years,â€? Lt. Col. Shane Lee, director of the Armor School, said in an e-mail. â€œThe Patton Museum at Fort Knox will continue to exhibit historical items from the famous general and will also have artifacts of Armor through the years.â€?

During the eight months the National Infantry Museum is closed, the static displays located in the front of the site will remain open to the public.

Visitors will also be able to see other sites on the Fort Benning Historical Trail, such as the monuments located on Sacrifice Field that memorialize soldiers who were assigned to units at Fort Benning.

Geoff_walden · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 26, 2006 Posts: 133

Anyone who thinks that the Patton Museum will remain among the premier armor museums in the world, after the BRAC move, need only read between the lines of the above. I'm betting that what's left won't fill two rooms.

Geoff

HellonwheelsV100 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 15, 2007 Posts: 67

Well this is scary news. I saw the Military History Center that they built at Carlisle Barracks (home of the Army War College). In a baffling move, the Army purchased 2 excellent running examples of WW2 armor (an M18 Hellcat and a Sherman), then pulled the engines and turned them into outdoor displays. Needless to say, a few PA winters down the road and those displays will look horrible.

What a waste!

I can only imagine what they paid to get those from the private collector who sold them, and then to make them into static pieces...

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