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clausb · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 146

Source: s268.photobucket.com/a...HolDanAfg/

Source: s191.photobucket.com/a...rbilleder/
The guy with the hat is the Danish Minister of Defense.

cbo

EDIT: Turns out the original source is haeren.smugmug.com/

A2_Prius · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 27, 2006 Posts: 112

That's quite an external covering on the Leos: I don't think I've ever seen such comprehensive cammo. What's it made of?

Doug_Kibbey

This is an interesting configuration....the gunshield looks like Vietnam style, the cupola looks very similar, but with no provision for the conventional TC's hatch (which opened into a "notch" in the back and constituted the rear protection) so presumably there is no hatch, or one of a completely different type. Certainly the first "turret bustle" I've ever seen on an M113 family TC cupola! Laughing

bsmart

Doug below the bustle there appears to be a panel leaning back. I wondr if it isn't a bustle as much as side panels to cover any open areas when the hatch is open

Joe_D

I'm Curious to how the Leo II's are doing against the IED threat there. I know in Iraq there are some very nasty ones.

Looks like a modified ACAV turret, notice that the vision block openings are covered over. Curious abot the hatch too, but what's the need for one in this enviroment other than to secure in the motor pool.

Joe D

Doug_Kibbey

- Joe_D

I'm Curious to how the Leo II's are doing against the IED threat there. I know in Iraq there are some very nasty ones.

Looks like a modified ACAV turret, notice that the vision block openings are covered over. Curious abot the hatch too, but what's the need for one in this enviroment other than to secure in the motor pool.

Joe D

As a practical matter, we never used the hatch either, but it was your "back" protection (and backrest), since there's a notch in an unmodified ACAV cup. I agree these may be modified ACAV cupolas, with welded backs and just no vision blocks at all, just plates to cover the holes. Maybe modified original ones, or ones based on templates from VN-era ACAV gear.

I never once closed the TC hatch on "Head Shoppe", though did close the infantry hatch occasionally at night in the NDP for light dicipline if I had a candle or flashlight going inside for any reason. No light would escape the cupola to speak of, it was taller and shaped funny.

clausb · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 146

- Doug_Kibbey

This is an interesting configuration....the gunshield looks like Vietnam style, the cupola looks very similar, but with no provision for the conventional TC's hatch (which opened into a "notch" in the back and constituted the rear protection) so presumably there is no hatch, or one of a completely different type. Certainly the first "turret bustle" I've ever seen on an M113 family TC cupola!

I thought it might interest you Smile

I dont think it is a bustle proper, if you look at the pic with the three M113s, it looks like they welded on two flaps to the rear of the cupola. Dont know the purpose though.

cbo

Doug_Kibbey · Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total

- clausb

- Doug_Kibbey

This is an interesting configuration....the gunshield looks like Vietnam style, the cupola looks very similar, but with no provision for the conventional TC's hatch (which opened into a "notch" in the back and constituted the rear protection) so presumably there is no hatch, or one of a completely different type. Certainly the first "turret bustle" I've ever seen on an M113 family TC cupola!

I thought it might interest you

I dont think it is a bustle proper, if you look at the pic with the three M113s, it looks like they welded on two flaps to the rear of the cupola. Dont know the purpose though.

cbo

Claus,
I see what you mean...well, with a standard ACAV cupola, when the hatch is in the open position and the TC in it manning his weapon, his back is covered but there is an angle of vulnerability to the sides (a "gap") of 12" or more at shoulder level between the hatch top and the top of the cupola sides(*as shown). Perhaps these welded on "wings" are there to eliminate this gap and protect the TC from shots from the right and left rear quarter areas.

The arrangement in the third and sixth picture down look different to me, though.

*

clausb · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 146

- A2_Prius

That's quite an external covering on the Leos: I don't think I've ever seen such comprehensive cammo. What's it made of?

Its so-called Barracuda netting. Aside from the obvious camouflage, it also reduces the thermal signature of the vehicle and keeps the vehicle cool by reducing heating by the sun. It also obstructs laser reflection.

www.defense-update.com...racuda.htm

cbo

clausb · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 146

Made some closeups. Looks like the cupola is open at the rear?

cbo

Doug_Kibbey

Claus,

Thanks....that reinforces my impression...between those and the plugged vision block slits, these are modifications designed to eliminate areas of vulnerability in the original ACAV cupola design.

My $.02, anyway....

Doug

clausb · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 146

Heres a couple more:

cbo

Doug_Kibbey

- clausb

Heres a couple more:

cbo

There you go, Claus...that last one with the wire cage for the ammo box is what I mistook for a bustle, shows much more clearly there. Now it all comes into "picture". Thanks for those!

D.

Buq-Buq · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 87

Doug:

Didn't the original ACAV shield configuration have a piece of sliding armor on the inside that could be used to cover the periscope cut-outs? I seem to recall seeing that on one . . . maybe in a manual, or on the ACAV monument at Ft. Knox. I also don't remember that the TC hatch opened as far as the one on the picture that you posted â€” was that a local modification?

Mark

Doug_Kibbey

- Buq-Buq

Doug:

Didn't the original ACAV shield configuration have a piece of sliding armor on the inside that could be used to cover the periscope cut-outs? I seem to recall seeing that on one . . . maybe in a manual, or on the ACAV monument at Ft. Knox. I also don't remember that the TC hatch opened as far as the one on the picture that you posted â€” was that a local modification?

Mark

Mark,
There were indeed grooved lips on the of the ACAV shield above the vision blocks that were probably for sliding plates like you mention (as well as welded loops above, probably to secure them in the suspended position). My vehicle did not have any such sliding plates in place at any of the vision block postions from what I can recall or what I can tell from several close up views of the in side of this cupola that I have. I can't speak for other vehicles...maybe Roy recalls whether "Boom-Boom" had these installed.

I don't think there is anything remarkable about my hatch. I've seen views of other vehicles with it apparently open just as wide. I think I have one of Roy's that shows pretty much the same angle, but from above.

Doug

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