±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 612
Total: 612
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Member Screenshots
07: News Archive
08: Member Screenshots
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: News Archive
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Member Screenshots
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Statistics
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Downloads
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Downloads
31: Community Forums
32: Statistics
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Downloads
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Member Screenshots
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: News Archive
58: Photo Gallery
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: News Archive
65: Photo Gallery
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Statistics
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Home
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: News
77: Member Screenshots
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: News Archive
86: Downloads
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Photo Gallery
90: Home
91: News Archive
92: Photo Gallery
93: News Archive
94: Member Screenshots
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Downloads
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Member Screenshots
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Downloads
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Member Screenshots
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Statistics
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Home
138: Statistics
139: Community Forums
140: Downloads
141: Member Screenshots
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Member Screenshots
153: Community Forums
154: News Archive
155: Photo Gallery
156: Home
157: Photo Gallery
158: Statistics
159: Photo Gallery
160: News Archive
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Photo Gallery
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Downloads
175: Photo Gallery
176: Photo Gallery
177: Photo Gallery
178: Home
179: Downloads
180: Photo Gallery
181: News
182: Photo Gallery
183: Member Screenshots
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Downloads
192: Home
193: Member Screenshots
194: Home
195: Member Screenshots
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Downloads
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Member Screenshots
202: Photo Gallery
203: Statistics
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Member Screenshots
207: Community Forums
208: News Archive
209: Community Forums
210: Statistics
211: Home
212: News Archive
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Statistics
216: Photo Gallery
217: Photo Gallery
218: Home
219: Member Screenshots
220: Home
221: Downloads
222: Member Screenshots
223: News
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Downloads
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Downloads
231: Home
232: Home
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Member Screenshots
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Photo Gallery
246: Home
247: Home
248: Home
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Downloads
253: Downloads
254: Home
255: Photo Gallery
256: Statistics
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Home
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Photo Gallery
264: Home
265: Home
266: Home
267: Home
268: Photo Gallery
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Member Screenshots
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: News Archive
275: Photo Gallery
276: News Archive
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Photo Gallery
280: Photo Gallery
281: Statistics
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Home
285: Home
286: Statistics
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Downloads
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Home
298: Home
299: Home
300: Home
301: Home
302: Home
303: Home
304: Home
305: Home
306: Home
307: Home
308: Member Screenshots
309: Home
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Home
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Home
323: Home
324: News Archive
325: Member Screenshots
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Member Screenshots
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Downloads
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Home
335: Downloads
336: Community Forums
337: Photo Gallery
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Member Screenshots
342: Home
343: Downloads
344: Community Forums
345: Your Account
346: Home
347: Home
348: Home
349: Home
350: News Archive
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Member Screenshots
360: Downloads
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Photo Gallery
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Member Screenshots
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: News Archive
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Photo Gallery
382: Downloads
383: Photo Gallery
384: Home
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Photo Gallery
395: Member Screenshots
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Photo Gallery
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: News Archive
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Community Forums
414: Member Screenshots
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: News Archive
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Statistics
423: Statistics
424: Community Forums
425: Downloads
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: News Archive
438: Photo Gallery
439: Home
440: Member Screenshots
441: Community Forums
442: Downloads
443: Downloads
444: Community Forums
445: Downloads
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Statistics
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: News Archive
460: Community Forums
461: Photo Gallery
462: Photo Gallery
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Photo Gallery
468: Downloads
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Photo Gallery
473: Home
474: Home
475: Home
476: Home
477: Home
478: Home
479: Home
480: Home
481: Home
482: Home
483: Home
484: Home
485: Community Forums
486: Home
487: Home
488: Member Screenshots
489: Home
490: Downloads
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Home
496: Downloads
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Community Forums
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Photo Gallery
506: Statistics
507: Home
508: Home
509: Home
510: Home
511: Home
512: Home
513: Home
514: Home
515: Home
516: Home
517: Home
518: Home
519: Home
520: News Archive
521: Photo Gallery
522: Home
523: Home
524: Home
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: News
529: Statistics
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Home
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Downloads
537: Statistics
538: Home
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Photo Gallery
542: Photo Gallery
543: Statistics
544: Home
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Photo Gallery
548: Photo Gallery
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Home
554: Community Forums
555: Photo Gallery
556: Community Forums
557: Member Screenshots
558: Community Forums
559: Photo Gallery
560: Downloads
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Downloads
565: Community Forums
566: Home
567: Community Forums
568: News Archive
569: Community Forums
570: Photo Gallery
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Member Screenshots
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Home
585: Home
586: Community Forums
587: Member Screenshots
588: News
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Home
596: Home
597: Home
598: Home
599: Community Forums
600: Home
601: Home
602: Community Forums
603: Home
604: Home
605: Photo Gallery
606: Home
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Photo Gallery
610: Home
611: Home
612: Downloads

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:05 am
Post subject: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

Hi Folks!

I was driving home from work this morning when I noticed a convoy of AFVs pulling out of the 5th BCT, 1st AD's motor pool. I found a spot to get off Fred Wilson Blvd and pulled my old camera out of the glove box.

Checks this out folks!


and


I took nine pictures, but that is my old camera and I can not see anything through it. These two are about the best of the bunch. I talked with a SFC would was guarding a gate where the convoy was passing from Briggs Field back onto Ft. Bliss. He told me he had just came from the 11th ACR at the NTC and this group of vehicles are now part of the 5th BCT of the 1st AD.

On another item of news. the 4th BCT, Longknives, 1st Cav. Division has passed into the history books. The BCT stood up on May 6, 2006, did one tour in Iraq, and has stood down on March 4, 2008.

Personel and equipment then stood up as the 4th BCT of the 1st Armored Division. 1st AD now has two BCTs at Ft. Bliss.

Back when the new FCS test BCT started standing up, the first units carried the markings of the 1st BCT (which in Iraq) and the 1st Bn, 36th Infantry (also in Iraq). Those two units have disappeared from the local news here and have been replaced by the 5th BCT with the 1st and 2nd CABs. (Combined Arms Battalions).

I had noticed during three different displays of 1st AD vehicles that the brigade part of the bumper markings had been taped over. I am now guessing that tape is covering up the old 1st BCT and 1st/36th Inf/CAB markings.

Spot Reports!
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:23 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

Hi Roy...

Gee, just think. It's not altogether unlikely that those very vehicles appear in some photos I took "over here" and posted some time ago. Laughing

Small world....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

The old 'shell' game..... A lot of that occurred in the early 90's with the 'Clinton cutbacks'.

moves, shifts, designations, redesignations, reflaggings,....

Trying to keep track of it was a bit of a nightmare.

Nice to hear that good ole Ft Bliss, is getting some of the benifets to all the troop shuffling.

(BTW: I have many good memories of the Tank trail between Biggs & The Airport,..... Shocked Cool Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

Been to Hueco Tanks lately, .....Use to be one hell of a party place... Mr. Green
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:21 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

"Shell Game"

Boy doesn't that say it all. Up to 2003 I had a pretty good handle on where tank and cavalry units were/existed. Once I got away from tanking (NOT MY CHOICE) it seemed I woke up one morning and realized I knew nothing about who was where and even the make up of these units. It took me by surprise when I encountered Tanks with Infantry Battalion markings, although it was a good surprise. I am a big supporter of these combined arms battalions and wished they had done this many years earlier. Now they need to roll the tankers and scouts back into the fold of 11 series MOS. Tankers for way too long have avoided and lacked some very critical combat skills that our Infantry have. Hell, as a 19E I never touched an M16 until I got to my first unit and did a Miessau gaurd rotation Shocked .

Change is good.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:45 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

- Joe_D
"Shell Game"

Boy doesn't that say it all. Up to 2003 I had a pretty good handle on where tank and cavalry units were/existed. Once I got away from tanking (NOT MY CHOICE) it seemed I woke up one morning and realized I knew nothing about who was where and even the make up of these units. It took me by surprise when I encountered Tanks with Infantry Battalion markings, although it was a good surprise. I am a big supporter of these combined arms battalions and wished they had done this many years earlier. Now they need to roll the tankers and scouts back into the fold of 11 series MOS. Tankers for way too long have avoided and lacked some very critical combat skills that our Infantry have. Hell, as a 19E I never touched an M16 until I got to my first unit and did a Miessau gaurd rotation Shocked .

Change is good.

Joe D



JOE...!!?? DUDE...!!! WTF!!!???? Shocked

You are hereby requested to return your 'Order of St George' Shocked , Your MG certification Laughing , your ceremonial spurs Rolling Eyes , burn your 'Dahners' Shocked and your stetson Mr. Green ....

You seem to have crossed sides by believing the dribble that tankers were/are less capable soldiers than 'Gods gift to Warfare' the Infantry...

BULL M****R F*****G S**T

".....THE HORROR,....!!!"

'NUFF SAID'
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Tanklord
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:18 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

(JOE...!!?? DUDE...!!! WTF!!!???? Shocked

You are hereby requested to return your 'Order of St George' Shocked , Your MG certification Laughing , your ceremonial spurs Rolling Eyes , burn your 'Dahners' Shocked and your stetson Mr. Green ....

You seem to have crossed sides by believing the dribble that tankers were/are less capable soldiers than 'Gods gift to Warfare' the Infantry...

BULL M****R F*****G S**T

".....THE HORROR,....!!!")

Medic! We got a man down! Get him a beer! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
Hi Roy...

Gee, just think. It's not altogether unlikely that those very vehicles appear in some photos I took "over here" and posted some time ago. Laughing

Small world....


Small world indeed! I was thinking the best I would ever do was see pictures of those OpFor VisMod M113s. To lay eyes on was a big surpise!

That made my day yesterday!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

Hi Dontos! Hi Folks!

- Dontos
The old 'shell' game.....

moves, shifts, designations, redesignations, reflaggings,....

Don


Back when that BCT stood up as a element of the 1st CD, the plan was to reflag them as a 1st AD unit later. Why do that? Why not just make them a BCT of the 1st AD for the start?

I have an idea that might possible be the reason for this shell game.

It's a funding shell game! 1st CD is high on the transformation list for funding. By standing up a 1st CD BCT, they received the newest equipment. Newly rebuild M2A3 Bradleys and newly rebuild M1A2 Seps with one cav troop receiving the remote weapons station upgrade. All those vehicles went to Iraq. I have yet to see vehicles return. So far only the troops have.

The last I have read is the 1st AD along with the 1st ID are not yet on the funding list for transformation.

I am watching for the vehicles to show up. I will be surpised if they are the original ones (a lot of units leave the best behind for the next unit to use) but if M1A2 Seps and M2A3s show up then the 1st AD will have it's first upgraded BCT. Either way, the 1st AD will have a BCT with the new TOE. Something they are not yet on the list to receive.


Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

The unit was stood up as part of 1CD because of the proximity of the division HQs and the support the new brigade receives from the division staff. Since the 1AD was in Germany and the 1CD at Hood, they could receive personnel and a cadre to assist in standing up the unit.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:00 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

Ouch, Ouch, Ouch, Don, quit it, ouch, ouch, ouch.

I knew someone would get a little offended by my comments, Let me clarify..

I never implied the Tanker was less a soldier than the Grunt. I just dis- agreed with how we allowed a combat arms branch get too wrapped around specializing. All combat arms soldiers should be able to fall back on being an Infantryman. Tankers seemed to get away from this more than our other Combat arms brothers. I've always admired the Marines with their "All Marines are Riflemen first". Infantry is Infantry. The most basic and fundemental fighting. You are not going to make tankers (or any other branch) as effective as our 11B's when it comes to their trade because that's all they do. Tankers still have to master their beast, which is not the simplest thing. But they should also be able to form up with an Infantry squad and possess enough skill to function effectively. This current world we are in can't allow us to be one dimensional, especially if your in a Combat MOS. It took me about 15 years of being a tanker to realize this. The current war has definately re-enforced it. Now think of the uphill battle it will be to get service and support soldiers up to snuff Neutral .

Now to address the order from Dontos Smile .

1. Order of Saint George, don't have one and don't want one. Was offered a few times but the biggest sticking point was I wasn't a subscriber to Armor Magazine (A Pre-requisite from what I'm told). Seen to many clowns who couldn't spell tank get them because they did nothing but complete Company Command Evil or Very Mad .

2. Master Gunner Certification, OK, got that but again, the 1059/ Certification don't mean much. It's those NCOER's showing you actually done the Job successfully. Kinda like wearing a Ranger Tab and never being in a Ranger Battalion. Admirable to have completed the course but doing it is the difference. BTW, Ranger Tab you can wear, Master Gunner Badge is not recognized Shocked .

3. Spurs, got 'em, earned 'em. But it's not like an EIB or EFMB. Everywhere the standard is different. Since we don't have a Combat Tankers Badge and got the consolation prize, the Combat Action Badge, maybe we need an equivelant peace time badge, Expert Soldier Badge comes to mind. Maybe our Sergeants Majors can come up with the standard. BTW, whens the last time you've seen a "Tank Weapons" qualification bar for your Bolo badge awarded. That kinda went away Crying or Very sad .

4. Dahners??? You mean those extra tall boots with pointy toes so you can find the stirrup easier Wink . Those, Sir are Cavalry boots. I am a Tanker, I wear the stubby round toe strap boots when tanking. Although they really suck to do any dis-mounted activity in them (Hence, Tanker Boots, never get off the tank). BTW, IAW AR 670-1, they are officially now called CVC boots and are issued/authorized to all soldiers who operate armored vehicles. Not just tankers. Seen a NBC LT wear them with NOMEX on her FOX NBC recon vehicle in Korea Shocked .

5. Stetson???? I know, it's a Cavalry thing, I always tend to equate them with Air CAV Confused . What I remember when I was a young tanker was seeing the unit photo's on the hall ways where everyone in the Squadron wore black Berets. That to me at the time was a tanker, Later, after wearing one for two years in the Mojave, I realized they sucked when it came to the field, but it beat wearing a helmet Mr. Green .

I y'am what I y'am, a Tanker man. Just some of my belief's are not in line with the "Cold War Tanker" mentality.


Joe D

BTW Don, Yambo asked how you're doing the other day. He's in Fort Stewart running a live fire shoot house.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:26 am
Post subject: Re: 1st Armored Division News from Ft. Bliss, Texas

- Joe_D
Ouch, Ouch, Ouch, Don, quit it, ouch, ouch, ouch.

I knew someone would get a little offended by my comments, Let me clarify..

I never implied the Tanker was less a soldier than the Grunt. I just dis- agreed with how we allowed a combat arms branch get too wrapped around specializing. All combat arms soldiers should be able to fall back on being an Infantryman. Tankers seemed to get away from this more than our other Combat arms brothers. I've always admired the Marines with their "All Marines are Riflemen first". Infantry is Infantry. The most basic and fundemental fighting. You are not going to make tankers (or any other branch) as effective as our 11B's when it comes to their trade because that's all they do. Tankers still have to master their beast, which is not the simplest thing. But they should also be able to form up with an Infantry squad and possess enough skill to function effectively. This current world we are in can't allow us to be one dimensional, especially if your in a Combat MOS. It took me about 15 years of being a tanker to realize this. The current war has definately re-enforced it. Now think of the uphill battle it will be to get service and support soldiers up to snuff Neutral .


RESPONSE PART ONE:


Well okay, I WAS is a terrible mood the other day, and I vented on you, (a bit too much actually).

Your use of the Marine Corps is both good & bad. Although I will probably get 'flamed' for this of being critical of the Corps, but not having been IN the Corps, but its a view taken from research into Ontos History.

All Marines ARE indeed basically Infantry, as they are all required to complete 'BOOT CAMP' (Army 'BASIC TRAINING' morphed from BASIC COMBAT TRAINING, and has evolved back do to current situations.)

Marines leaving BOOT CAMP get there specialization training (if not being assigned as basic Infantryman) and this is where the polarization begins. The 'unofficial' state of mind that if your anything other than a grunt, you're 'sub-par' or 'not a good marine'. This, as I learned, was (or is) also true of the Officer Corps.

I was commissioned a Second Lieutenant in December and completed The Basic School (also at Quantico) the following June. Prior to graduation from TBS I was selected for an 0302, infantry officer, MOS and assigned to the 1st Marine Brigade in Hawaii.
Upon arriving at the old Honolulu airport after my flight from Travis Air Force base near San Francisco in early 1963, I was picked up by a 1st Lieutenant from the Brigade's Ontos company. He informed me that I had been assigned to B Anti Tank Company.
I do not recall having had any previous knowledge of the Ontos when I reported in to B ATs company commander. In fact I don't think it was never mentioned at Quantico. I had been selected for infantry and I expected to assigned to an infantry unit, so I was a initially a bit disappointed....

The only formal training I had was a correspondence course from the Marine Corps Institute. I still have the manual from that course and in the preface it states the following; "This manual was written for the Infantryman who has had no previous experience with tracked vehicles. It is realized that for an infantryman to become proficient in the operation and maintenance of the Ontos, the greater part of his training will have to come from actual duty with an antitank company; but by thorough study of the material contained herein, the Marine will be better able to perform his duties as an Ontos crew member. He will have gained a substantial foundation on which to build his operational and tactical knowledge of this, the most potent weapon of the antitank assaultman." The course was intended for prospective crew members not platoon commanders, but it gave me the basics about the weapon I would be commanding...."

"How was it viewed by the other officers outside of ATs? There was
little understanding of the capabilities of the Ontos among the infantry
units. It had not yet been proved in combat and they did not know how
to utilize it; even though they understood that it carried an incredible amount of firepower. To my knowledge there were absolutely no manuals or papers written regarding the tactical employment of the Ontos. It was assumed that in combat it would be used as intended as an anti-tank weapon."

"From the perspective of an officer intending to make a career as a
Marine Corps infantry officer, it would not have been considered a good
assignment; unless that is, it was fairly brief and followed on the heels
of having been in a rifle company for a more extended period of time."


Well okay long winded but felt someone might enjoy it. Rolling Eyes

Don

Mr. Green
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum