±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 202
Total: 202
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Downloads
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Home
09: Downloads
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Home
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Downloads
51: Home
52: Home
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Your Account
58: Community Forums
59: Member Screenshots
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Home
67: News Archive
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Home
85: News Archive
86: Member Screenshots
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Home
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Your Account
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Downloads
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Member Screenshots
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Member Screenshots
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Downloads
140: Home
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: News
144: Home
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Home
155: Home
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Member Screenshots
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: News Archive
182: Community Forums
183: Downloads
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Home
187: Downloads
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Home
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Member Screenshots
196: Home
197: News Archive
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:19 am
Post subject: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I was at the Washington Armor Club (modelers) meeting yesterday and mentioned the M5 Stuart wreck at the Patuxent Wildlife Research Refuge (which was formerly a Fort Meade target range) - when one of the guys there mentioned that there were also four British Crusader wrecks located there.

Accordingly, Steve Carter just provided the below pictures. Can anyone tell that these are Crusaders? Its close enough that I'm tempted to make a trip sometime soon...

I cant tell if these are the same or different ones. The second one looks to be upside down? Isnt that a Christie suspension arm in the foreground?





Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

The two photos don't show the same tank hull, but the two are upside down. f you closely compare the 2 hulls, they are very similar but have some differences. I can't tell for sure if these are Crusaders or not..
(And there is a man on the right side of the 1st photo, quite well hidden..)

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
fitzday
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

I think those are the same hull, just different angles. If you look close the same busted up second roadwheel is apparent in each picture. And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. If I'm not mistaken, Crusaders had 5 didn't they? Anybody have any idea what Crusaders would be doing in MD?
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Yep, the Crusader was the first British "Christie Cruiser" to have five roadwheels.

I'm not all that surprised there are/were Crusaders in Maryland, but a little surprised they were at Fort Meade rather than APG. I highly suspect they were Reverse Lend-Lease...

The Ordnance Museum already has one Crusader Mk III, and had a Crusader Mk IICS (close support variant) at one point... But I dont have any records for another 3 missing Crusaders... Its possible that Jarret didnt acquire these for the museum since he already had two and therefore they went straight to the ranges at Meade.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

BTW, Bob, I wont be able to make it up for your tour this weekend as I have friends in town - but I think perhaps we should plan on a huntin' trip to Laurel sometime in the near future Wink

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
tankbarrell
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

[quote="fitzday"]I think those are the same hull, just different angles.

I agree with that.

And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. quote]

They are not torsion bars. Christie suspension used large springs between the inner and outer hulls.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:50 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Joe DeMarco sent me these pictures yesterday - I think this fairly concretely answers the question...





He says there were five Crusaders at the research refuge, but warned that they warn you to stay on the trails & sign a waiver lest you step on some unexploded ordnance Surprised

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

SALVAGE!!!

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

Joe said he told Charles Lemmons with the Patton Museum about them some years ago. Joe thought there was enough to probably put together one Crusader. He also said that its possible they've already been moved by one of the "remediation teams."

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
longo213
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 16, 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I don't really like to open a two years old thread but anytime I'm listing thru Surviving Cruiser tank list I get really curious what happened to those five Crusaders. Any news from Patton museum about them?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:15 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

No Crusaders here. With the armor element moving, its very doubtful any effort has been or will be made.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
longo213
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 16, 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

It would be really sad if they ended up in scrap...
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

They will most likely continue to sit and decay... Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone..


Who should do the effort?

I would be ready to come in the US and cut down some trees to remove them from there !!!

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

You'd need lots of government approvals, money, equipment, etc. They're currently on old target ranges, with potentially unexploded ordnance. Needless to say they advise you stay on the trails - which are presumably clear of any UXO

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum