±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: spadgham
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6643

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 171
Total: 171
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Your Account
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: CPGlang
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Home
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Photo Gallery
45: CPGlang
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: News
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Home
59: CPGlang
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Photo Gallery
72: CPGlang
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Home
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Downloads
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Your Account
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: CPGlang
115: Community Forums
116: CPGlang
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Statistics
122: Community Forums
123: CPGlang
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Downloads
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Home
151: Photo Gallery
152: Home
153: Downloads
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: CPGlang
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Statistics
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Camp Mabry running M4A3...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:05 am
Post subject: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

This M4A3 was used at the WWII reincatment today. It's serial number from the rear tow lugs was 7884, which I intend to send to Joe Demarco to see what he can find out about it and I'll post it here. However what the driver was able to tell me was that it was sent to Israel where the spare road-wheel mounts were added to the side towards the rear. Also the engine is now a Cummins and there is no longer a data plate in the drivers area. During the show it must have fired about 6-8 rounds with flame shooting out of the barrel. The kids got a kick out of seeing a Sherman actually run and move. I'll post more as I know more about this vehicle.

[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:07 pm
Post subject: Frankentank

Hi Jeff:

That's a typical IDF vehicle - the basic hull is an M4A4. The French (post-war) converted them over to R975 radial engines and put M4/M4A1 decks on them, calling them M4A4Transforme or modified. The Israelis added the HVSS and Cummins engine. I don't know if they had any howitzer tanks, so the turret may be from the current or previous owner. The French would stamp the vehicle S/N in the bottom center of the glacis (about where the tarp is).

It looks like the S/N is 17884, which makes more sense for an M4A4 (7884 was an M4A2).

Good find,
KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Jeff,
Does the Sherman belong to the museum, or some private owner?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Hey Neil, this Sherman belongs to the museum and is usually stored inside beside some M3 Halftracks. I recorded numbers from various areas of the body, but the number stamped into the edge of the front glacis, should tell us some more about this tanks history once I get info mack from Joe Demarco. The number is B1491.
I also had to post this picture of my boys with the Sherman!!!

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Frankentank

Hi Kurt! Hi Folks!

- Kurt_Laughlin

I don't know if they had any howitzer tanks,....
KL


Yes they did. Some of the first tanks they picked up came from de-mil sites. The 105mm barrels had holes drilled into them. The IDF patched them up and used them during the earlier years. There are a few pictures floating around of IDF Shermans with 105 gun mantels mounting standard 75mm gun barrels.

As for where that 105mm turret came from, I THINK(?) I read somewhere that the museum had it and mounted it on this hull which came without a turret.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:01 am
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

The TC of this vehicle told me that the turret was not original, and that the interior had "blast marks" to the inside of the hull which stopped at the turret ring. Since I was with the kids and there were many more people around, I didn't ask for a look inside. I did ask if there was a dada plate in the drivers hole and was told it was missing.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Hello all, I sent the pictures and info on this Sherman to Joe Demarco and here is what he told me along with two pictures;

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the report. That was originally built by Chrysler as an M4A4. Just a guess that it was sent to the French as Lend Lease during WW II. The French supplied a lot of Shermans to Israel in the 1950s. They upgunned them with a French copy of the Panther's 75mm. They were re-engined with Cummins diesels, were retrofitted with HVSS, & that one got a new differential, since all M4A4s were originally built with 3-piece diffs. The Israeli designation for that conversion was M50. That particular example no longer has its M50 turret, but instead has a 105mm turret. I believe the M50 turret from the Mabry is on a M4A3(105) range wreck hull at a Tank Museum in Illinois. And yes, the original US serial number of the Mabry is 17884, indicating it was built by Chrysler in Jan, 1943.

Here's what a relatively complete M50 looks like. This one is S/N 17091, & used to be owned by a gent in Texas.

As you know from your later Chrysler built Shermans at Hood, the number stamped into the edge of the glacis is a loose build number. I can't make sense of it on the M4A4s. That would have been about the 2730th M4A4 accepted, so B1491 is not even close. The M4A4 at APG is SN 19617, & it has B2333 stamped on there & that doesn't make any sense either. I think the other numbers stampings you found have to do with the individual armor plates.

Thanks again, Jeff.

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:47 am
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
"That was originally built by Chrysler as an M4A4. Just a guess that it was sent to the French as Lend Lease during WW II. The French supplied a lot of Shermans to Israel in the 1950s. They upgunned them with a French copy of the Panther's 75mm. They were re-engined with Cummins diesels, were retrofitted with HVSS, & that one got a new differential, since all M4A4s were originally built with 3-piece diffs. The Israeli designation for that conversion was M50. That particular example no longer has its M50 turret, but instead has a 105mm turret. I believe the M50 turret from the Mabry is on a M4A3(105) range wreck hull at a Tank Museum in Illinois."


What a cobbled together piece of wheezing old battlefield pickup! Junkyard hull, bastardized differential, replacement engine, scrapped engine deck, counterfeit gun, upgraded suspension, shadetree swap turret dragged off a firing range, etc. Five or six owners. Gasp! Cough! Snort!

I can't believe anyone is taking this running, functional, complete Sherman tank seriously. What's their address? I'll give them $50 (Canadian because it is actually more than the US$ today), to take that old wreck off their hands. Somebody's gotta know the name of the guy in charge. Money talks.
Back to top
View user's profile
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

- Maple_Leaf_Eh

What a cobbled together piece of wheezing old battlefield pickup! Junkyard hull, bastardized differential, replacement engine, scrapped engine deck, counterfeit gun, upgraded suspension, shadetree swap turret dragged off a firing range, etc. Five or six owners. Gasp! Cough! Snort!


I think you just gave the text book description of a M50. Laughing

_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Wow, these former Israeli Shermans are stretching my ability to describe them in brief terms in the AFV Register entries!

Okay, the tank museum in Illinious is the Russell Military Museum... Jeff, I think that's what the first pic is of???

I'm guessing the second M50 is the one that used be owned by a private owner in Fredericksburg TX - Jeff, can you confirm that (or is this another former TX M50?), and if so where it is currently? Its painted in the same style as the one at the Virginia Museum of Military Vehicles - but that one has been there for years, and has never looked so good unless its been recently restored. Wink Could be the one in Toole, UT I suppose...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:16 am
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Hello Neil,
The Tan painted Sherman is titled "Fred M50". The OD Sherman is titled "Kenosah M4A3 105 w/M50 turret". That tan Sherman is sharp looking.
My sons, age 8 and 13 didn't care it was "cobbled together" and quite frankly, neither did I. We had never seen a Sherman run and fire before, (even though they were blanks) so it was quite a treat for us. As you can see, my sons have been in, and gotton a ride through the desert in an M2 Halftrack, (the same one Doug got to drive, lucky devil!) climbed into an M578, and been in numerous helicopters, armor, jeeps, etc.... Now I just need to get them to that "Ontos" nearby here that Dontos is trying to hook me up with between their many baseball, soccer, football, basketball practices and games. My sons really enjoy military history, both ground and wingy-things. My next project is to get into the local MVPA, purchase a vehicle / trailer, and get them even more emmersed into the history. I have Doug to thank because until they met him, they just thought it was one of dad's weird hobbies, haha. Enough blabbing!

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum