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-GONE-Book Up For Grabs-GONE
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:00 pm
Post subject: -GONE-Book Up For Grabs-GONE

I just finished a paperback by our favorite military man, General James Gavin. It's called ON TO BERLIN. Anybody want it?

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Last edited by MarkHolloway on Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Book Up For Grabs

- MarkHolloway
I just finished a paperback by our favorite military man, General James Gavin. It's called ON TO BERLIN. Anybody want it?


Should be a good read, as I understand.

As many know, the problem is not Gavin. A true warrior with combat developed 'futuristic' ideas. Some a bit unrealistic, but its easy to make negative assessments of the plans & Ideas of Military leadership of the past, based on the present realities. Gavin was in a critical position during the beginning of the Atomic age, and with the rising threat of the Cold War.

It was only decades later that a group (probably only a few malcontents) began their mean-spirited tirade of historic misinterpretations, misinformation, and bold faced lies.

'nuff said,.... I'm gonna get fired up again.....

Don
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Book Up For Grabs

I was thinking of you when I wrote 'favorite' Mr. Green

Do you want it? Don't want to throw it away.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: Book Up For Grabs

- MarkHolloway
I was thinking of you when I wrote 'favorite' Mr. Green

Do you want it? Don't want to throw it away.


Thanks for the offer, but not really interested.

I figured someone on this DG would have interest.

Don't throw it away. If noone speaks up, I'll find a home for it.

Don
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Book Up For Grabs

Hi Mark! Hi Folks!

I would be interested in it. How much do you want for it?

Roy,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:08 am
Post subject: Re: Book Up For Grabs

Roy, speaking of books, whad'ya think of the one I sent you a while back?

Joe D
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Book Up For Grabs

It'll be in the mail today. Got your adress off of Yahoo! People Search Mr. Green

No Charge Shocked

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Book Up For Grabs

ON THE WAY!

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: MG White's Report

Hi Joe! Hi Folks!

- Joe_D
Roy, speaking of books, whad'ya think of the one I sent you a while back?


Sorry about not reporting on it sooner Joe.

Joe send me a copy of a report by Major General I.D. White, CO, 2d Armored Division, titled "A Report on United States vs. German Armor that was sent to Gen. Eisenhower at his requiest. It is dated 1945.

1. Surprised by the number of troops who reported the 90mm on the M-36 TD wasn't good enough. If that 90mm was good enough, then the Pershing wasn't going to help either.

2. Telescopic sights didn't have enough range. I had never heard that one before.

3. Not enough 76mm Shermans. I though there where more than the units wanted.

4. Very bad shortage of HVAP rounds. Sounds worst that I had heard before.

5. BGen J.H. Collier, Cmdr CCA, comment #5.
"It is my opinion that press reports of statements by high ranking officers to the effect that we have the best equipment in the world do much to discourage the soldier who is using equipment that he knows to be inferior to that of the enemy."

As one who worked with the M-114 and saw many of the problems with Sheridan, I understand this one. Major case of been there, heard that, and was discouraged by statements like that.

6. Germans had smokeless powder which the US didn't. I found this one very surprising. I though everyone know about smokeless power before WWII even started.

7. The M8 Armored Car was better than all the German one's. I had the feeling that the M8 was useless. I guess not.

8. Lt.Col. Wilson M. Hawkins, CO 3rd Bn, 67th Ar. Regiment.
"I would prefer to fight in the present German Mark V or VI tank against the U.S. medium tank and tank destroyer with the 90mm gun."
See my point number one.

9. Ammo storage rack in the M36 TD "inadequate" and "difficult loading procedure required to fire ammo stowed in the counterbalance compartment". This one surpised me. The U.S. has been putting ammo in the back of a turret sense the M48.

10. Another M36 TD problem. Hot rounds hang up due to expansion and insufficiently tapered case.

11. German field glasses the best. This one doesn't surpise me. During my time, I carried my own set of 10x50 binos because I know they were better than the issued ones I had.

12. In the Exhibit No. 3, page 3 section, comment by Clarence E. Land about the M5 light tank. On page 25, SSgt Mervin E. Haugh Jr. reported "there is no role in this war"

This one openned my eyes to problem that I think most of us have overlooked. We have all forgotten about the tankers who crewed the Stuart light tanks. For all the Sherman's bad points, the Stuarts were far worst and still the US Army fielded companies of them along with two battalions thru the end of the war. I can understand starting the war with the Stuarts. The US thought the 37mm would make a good AT gun. By the time North Africa was over, it was known that it was to light and the 37 was no longer any good. But yet, two full battalions where stood up and went to the end of the war as light tank units.

13. The Ford engine is "considered very good,.....add two more cylinders you'd have an engine." What? I have some notes I made about building a super Sherman 90mm model. I was thinking the same thing as a way to counter the heavy armor I was thinking about adding to the hull.

14. The U.S. 76mm gun was "improperly balanced" requiring re-laying after each shot. (Page 39) What? Why h..l didn't this problem get fixed before it was issued to the troops? I had never heard this one before.

Then again on Page 42, Sgt Joseph O. Posecoi. He reported that he tried to shake the gun tube on a Mark V and it didn't move. Trying that on a 76mm gun Sherman and the tube would move up and down.

Some of my old history. As an acting PSG at Ft. Bliss, TX, my Sheridan would do that. Support would not order new parts because someday the unit was going to receive M60 MBTs and it cost to much to fix. So as part of "Point of the 3rd Corps spear", we had to made do. I know just how Sgt Posecoi felt.

15. My favorite comment in the report is on page 44 by Sgt. Harold E. Fulton.

"Our best tank weapon, and the boy that saved us so many time, is the P-47."

16. The date (March 18, 1945) on Gen. Eisenhower's request to MG White and MG Rose surprised me. That is a bit late, the war was almost over by then, so why bother?

There you are Joe. Sorry for taking so long. A quick and a bit disjoined report on MG White's report. It is to bad that MG Rose didn't get his report done or it just has not been found yet.

Spot report on a report to Gen. Eisenhower by MG White, CO, 2nd Armored Division, 1945.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Book Up For Grabs

Hi Mark! Hi Folks!

- MarkHolloway
ON THE WAY!


Super! Thank You!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:12 am
Post subject: Re: -GONE-Book Up For Grabs-GONE

Along the same lines of 'new' books and manuals, I was recently given a number of manuals and requlations that I have known about, but hadn't had seen or had access to.

Included are:

- LFM-14: Employment of tanks in the landing force
- FMFM 9-1: Tank Employment (July 64)
- FMFM -10: Communications (May 61)
- LFB-23: Employment of the AntiTank Battalion (dec 59)
- LFM-6: The Battalion Landing Team (Jan 56)
- ORD 7 SNL G-288: ORG MAINT for ....M50 Ontos (Jan 58)
- ORD 9 SNL G-288: List of all svc parts,M50 Ontos (oct 57)
- Monthly newsletter from Aco 4th AT BN (June 1966)

I received them as part of an attic clearing function of a Marine Vet, who figured He'd pass along his 'reference collection' to someone who may actually use the material. After finding one of my websites, he sent me the offer, and then the manuals.....

What a pleasent surprize!!

Regards
Don
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: -GONE-Book Up For Grabs-GONE

Roy,

I thought you'd enjoy the read. Unfortunately my original is now gone, left somewhere in Knoxville TN when I cleared out of there.

Some of the other interesting comments were on the ability of the MK V's to "Float" over soft terrain compared to the narrower tracked Sherman and Stuart. The other surprise was how they compared the Panther and Sherman's speed and cross country abilities, with the Panther coming out on top. Other comments was on the advantage of the Panther to "Pivot" steer that the US crews didn't have. Reading all the crews comments just puts me in awe of what they had to deal with. Gotta respect a guy who goes in knowing his odds are pretty bad. I mean, how demoralizing can it be to constantly see your rounds be ineffective while you and you wingmen are taken out with one shot at distances you can't even engage or unable to see because they leave almost no signature.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: -GONE-Book Up For Grabs-GONE

- Joe_D


...with the Panther coming out on top. Other comments was on the advantage of the Panther to "Pivot" steer that the US crews didn't have.


Joe

That reminds me of a narrative I read from 'Bobby Woll', Wittmans Tiger 1 gunner.
Woll attributed much of Wittmans success to the use of vehicle (w gun ) orientation instead of turret rotation, to engage. Said the tactic was learned from Wittmans 'Stug' experience.

On the experiences of US Sherman crewman:
I will always remember a 70th Armor reunion at Ft Polk in 1990. I ran the UCOFT for some of the WWII Vets. Amazing abilities using the GAS and manual controls, even after all the years. Spent several hours listening in awe of the stories that they shared.

A truely humbling experience to speak with several Sherman tankers, who fought thru the war, even after being 'blown' out of several tanks.

Don
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: -GONE-Book Up For Grabs-GONE

- Joe_D
Roy,

I thought you'd enjoy the read. Unfortunately my original is now gone, left somewhere in Knoxville TN when I cleared out of there.

Joe D


Joe That is the document you sent me a copy of also isn't it?

I have most of it scanned into my system at home and we could make it available for everyone if I can get around to it. Since it is a U.S. Govt document there are no copyright concerns

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:21 pm
Post subject: Re: -GONE-Book Up For Grabs-GONE

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart


Joe That is the document you sent me a copy of also isn't it?

I have most of it scanned into my system at home and we could make it available for everyone if I can get around to it. Since it is a U.S. Govt document there are no copyright concerns


Hey Bob, I think the answer to your question is YES.

Question about copywrite.

Check out this wed site:

www.lulu.com/content/200052

It's for a website called LULU. They sell a download version for $6.95 (US) and $19.95 for a paperback book copy.

The cover of the book is a copy of the first page of the report.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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