±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 565
Total: 565
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Home
04: Member Screenshots
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Member Screenshots
11: Downloads
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Member Screenshots
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Photo Gallery
22: Home
23: News Archive
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: Downloads
28: Statistics
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: News
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: News
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Downloads
44: Home
45: Home
46: Photo Gallery
47: Member Screenshots
48: Community Forums
49: Member Screenshots
50: Member Screenshots
51: Community Forums
52: News Archive
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Member Screenshots
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Member Screenshots
61: News
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Statistics
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: News Archive
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Member Screenshots
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Member Screenshots
93: Community Forums
94: Downloads
95: Home
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Home
100: Member Screenshots
101: Member Screenshots
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Member Screenshots
107: News Archive
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Downloads
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Home
125: Photo Gallery
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Member Screenshots
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Photo Gallery
139: Member Screenshots
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Member Screenshots
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Downloads
160: Photo Gallery
161: Community Forums
162: Downloads
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: News
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Member Screenshots
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Home
182: Member Screenshots
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: LinkToUs
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Downloads
192: Member Screenshots
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Downloads
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Member Screenshots
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: News
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Treasury
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Statistics
235: Community Forums
236: Member Screenshots
237: Member Screenshots
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: News Archive
249: Member Screenshots
250: Community Forums
251: Downloads
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Downloads
256: Home
257: Member Screenshots
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Statistics
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: News Archive
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Downloads
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: News Archive
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: News Archive
284: News Archive
285: Downloads
286: Statistics
287: Downloads
288: Community Forums
289: Photo Gallery
290: Photo Gallery
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: Photo Gallery
298: News Archive
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: News Archive
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: News
309: Photo Gallery
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Downloads
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Downloads
328: Statistics
329: Community Forums
330: Member Screenshots
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Downloads
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Treasury
343: Community Forums
344: Member Screenshots
345: Photo Gallery
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Downloads
350: Photo Gallery
351: Home
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Downloads
356: Community Forums
357: Downloads
358: Contact
359: Community Forums
360: News
361: Home
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Downloads
370: Community Forums
371: Member Screenshots
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Home
377: Downloads
378: Home
379: News Archive
380: Community Forums
381: Photo Gallery
382: Photo Gallery
383: Downloads
384: Community Forums
385: Downloads
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Member Screenshots
396: Member Screenshots
397: Home
398: Member Screenshots
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Home
402: Photo Gallery
403: Downloads
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Downloads
407: Photo Gallery
408: Home
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Your Account
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Downloads
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Member Screenshots
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Downloads
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Member Screenshots
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Member Screenshots
438: Community Forums
439: Home
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Downloads
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: News Archive
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Home
463: Community Forums
464: Home
465: News Archive
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: News
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Member Screenshots
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Home
497: Home
498: Community Forums
499: Home
500: Home
501: Home
502: Community Forums
503: Home
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Home
508: Home
509: Home
510: Home
511: Community Forums
512: Home
513: Home
514: Home
515: Home
516: Member Screenshots
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: Home
523: Downloads
524: Downloads
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Photo Gallery
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Home
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Member Screenshots
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Member Screenshots
541: Member Screenshots
542: Downloads
543: Home
544: Community Forums
545: Member Screenshots
546: Home
547: Photo Gallery
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Member Screenshots
551: Photo Gallery
552: News
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Member Screenshots
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Photo Gallery
560: News Archive
561: Home
562: Home
563: Member Screenshots
564: Photo Gallery
565: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Patton Museum Chieftain pics?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:23 pm
Post subject: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

Don, or anyone else,
Do you have any good pics of the Patton Museum Chiefain - particularly of the front hull, hopefully where the VRN plate still is? There is some discussion on TankNet as to whether its a prototype, etc. Last I saw it was in the hanger-type building which I think has now been vacated...

These are the only pics I have, before I was tracking SNs, VRNs, etc - back during an infamous Memorial Day weekend trip





I know the Ordnance Museum got its Chieftain and a Leopard 1 prototype from the German BWB test organization. Interestingly, Knox also has a Leo 1 prototype...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

- Neil_Baumgardner
I know the Ordnance Museum got its Chieftain and a Leopard 1 prototype from the German BWB test organization. Interestingly, Knox also has a Leo 1 prototype...


By a spooky coincidence the Leopard section from my original German tank books has just gone online if you're interested:

Preserved Leopard 1s

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs


Last edited by TrevorLarkum on Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

- Neil_Baumgardner


These are the only pics I have, before I was tracking SNs, VRNs, etc - back during an infamous Memorial Day weekend trip



Neil


Very discrete, blurring that guy on the left of the vehicle...wouldn't want his image getting out in public domain where just anybode could make his ID. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

I think that Chieftain never actually got a VRN as it was one of two purchased for trials by the Germans direct from the manufacturers. The images I have show no VRN on the vehicles which seems to have been normal for the period as the M56 Scorpion, M113 C&R and XM765 they also purchased did not have VRNs either.

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************


Last edited by JimWeb on Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

- TrevorLarkum
- Neil_Baumgardner
I know the Ordnance Museum got its Chieftain and a Leopard 1 prototype from the German BWB test organization. Interestingly, Knox also has a Leo 1 prototype...


By a spooky coincidence the Leopard section from my original German tank books has just gone online if you're interested:

Preserved Leopard 1s

I'll be bringing it up to date as soon as I can.


I did just notice that...

Here's the Ordnance Museum Leopard prototype - any identification would be most welcome.



More of the Knox Leopard





BTW, 09A003 is the MBT-70 that is at the Ordnance Museum - even though it has another RN painted on it. Incidentally you can also track MBT-70s by their SNs. The one at Aberdeen is No. 3. Its all in the USA AFV Register Wink



Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

Regarding the Chieftain, I haven't yet made the manuscript of Preserved Tanks in the USA online. However, here's a sneak peak at this Chieftain's entry:

Patton Chieftain

As with PGT2, I'll be bringing all my original data up to date as soon as I can.


Edit: I've just checked back and seen the stuff you've posted - I don't have time to take a look at it now (just off to bed!) but I'll have a look tomorrow and respond.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?


Very discrete, blurring that guy on the left of the vehicle...wouldn't want his image getting out in public domain where just anybode could make his ID. Wink


Not a blur. I thinks it's the ghost of AFV's past Wink

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:06 am
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

Trevor,
How certain are you about that Knox Chieftain VRN? Its a real odd one for an early model... The MS series includes some Chieftain ARVs a lot of later model Chieftains - Chieftain Mk 5/5 (P) for Iran, Shir 2 / Khalid, Chieftain 900s, Chieftain Sabre - oh yeah and prototype Warrior. Seems to be about a decade off in terms of early Chieftain VRN assignments...

Known Chieftain prototypes are in the DA and DC series ranges. PP1 (Production Pilot 1) was in the DM range... I would normally at least expect an early Chieftain to be XXDXXX....

Then again, I guess MS makes sense since the MS series was specifically designated for overseas sales vehicles... Even so 65MS is a VRN after several later model Chieftains... <shrug>

BTW, yes, I am now tracking VRNs Wink

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:08 am
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

Well,...no luck in my 'archive' on the Chieftain photos.

I did dig up some Centurion photos and some of the Challenger.

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

Not able to get anything, till Friday at the earliest, or early next week.

"I just living in a blur" Mr. Green
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:19 am
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

Neil, I visited Fort Knox in the 80s and spent about a week there. I got on well with the staff, and spent a lot of time going through their records, particularly for acquisitions (I've been lucky to do that at a few other collections too, like Bovington).

That number is therefore likely to have come from their paperwork, though I would have to check my notes to confirm its source (and they will likely remain boxed in the attic until I work on putting PTiUSA online).


- Neil_Baumgardner

Here's the Ordnance Museum Leopard prototype - any identification would be most welcome.




Group A, Series II.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

Trevor,
Thanks. The VRN is a little odd, but I'm trusting it more since its in the same range as other overseas sales vehicles... It just appears they assigned other VRNs out of order (ie earlier in the sequence) later for some reason...

I take it may be able to find some sort of number on the Leo by checking the front right mud flap?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

Neil

This is the LEO 1, in Richardson MP.

[img][/img]

Trevor
I was only aware of the Challenger being a prototype, of the British series. It is a runner, 'we' included in a demonstration / exhibit in 2003 & 2004.

The turret interior is 'gutted', which is how it arrived here.

Manual traverse is not for the timid, having traversed it 180 degrees, for the shows. (I'd rather manual crank-start, the panzer III before having to traverse the Challanger turret again.)

I can't remember too many details on the Chieftain. I don't think I've even been in her, in my time here. That is quite an unusual fact since I have made it a habit to 'check out' interiors, when the chance occurs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

- Neil_Baumgardner
Trevor,
I take it may be able to find some sort of number on the Leo by checking the front right mud flap?


I have seen it there, but I didn't used to be as thorough with numbers in the past as I am now, so I don't have enough information on those Leopards to confirm there's a definitive system. Back then if a number came to me I recorded it, but I didn't go searching vehicles for one (which I do now).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

- Dontos
Trevor
I was only aware of the Challenger being a prototype, of the British series. It is a runner, 'we' included in a demonstration / exhibit in 2003 & 2004.

The turret interior is 'gutted', which is how it arrived here.

Manual traverse is not for the timid, having traversed it 180 degrees, for the shows. (I'd rather manual crank-start, the panzer III before having to traverse the Challanger turret again.)

I can't remember too many details on the Chieftain. I don't think I've even been in her, in my time here. That is quite an unusual fact since I have made it a habit to 'check out' interiors, when the chance occurs.


Thanks for that - I served on Challengers but did some time on Chieftains (e.g. in Canada) so I have a soft spot for both old girls.

QuickQuiz: which one is most comfortable for the crews, and why?

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Patton Museum Chieftain pics?

Yeah, I was aware of the Knox Challenger 1 (VC47) as well. It was "Special Project Vehicle" trials Challenger 1 - thats what the SP stands for.

But frankly its very confusing & hard to tell whats a late Chieftain mod vs a Shir 2 vs a Khalid vs a outright Challenger 1 prototype...

The first "Challenger 1" reference I have is 05SP04...

05SP50 was a Khalid

05SP52 is the Challenger 1 prototype (V3A2) on display outside Bovington

05SP53 to 57 were supposedly various Shir 2 / Khalids...

05SP68 is a Challenger 1 Mk 1 at Bovington

Then there's some Rapiers & Centurions mixed in for good measure...

Finally 06SP39, 40 and 41 are various Challenger 1s - the last one being VC47 at Fort Knox <shrug>

I wasnt aware of the Chieftain being special until just recently as well - although I'm not surprised...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum