±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 186
Total: 186
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Home
04: News Archive
05: News
06: Photo Gallery
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Home
11: Member Screenshots
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Your Account
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: News Archive
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Downloads
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Home
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Member Screenshots
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Member Screenshots
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Your Account
90: Member Screenshots
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Downloads
96: Community Forums
97: Your Account
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: News Archive
102: Member Screenshots
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Home
107: Home
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: News
116: Community Forums
117: News Archive
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Downloads
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: News Archive
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: News Archive
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Home
146: News Archive
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Member Screenshots
153: Photo Gallery
154: Home
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: News Archive
162: News Archive
163: Downloads
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Downloads
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Home
179: Home
180: Home
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Downloads
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Something old
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:52 pm
Post subject: Something old

Spotted this pulling into Richardson tank park yesterday,

I knew it was coming after talking with one of the Museum Specialists the day before. I was there checking on, what else, some M60's. I didn't expect it that morning and figured I'd be on my way home before it got there. Lucky me the driver came in early.

Panzer IV Side

Panzer IV

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

The resemblance to this one taken at APG last year is striking. Better Bob not see this. Not that it's likely it would have remained at either place for much longer.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

Yep,

Bob's been "Jacked" Laughing ,

This old Girl doesn't roll, Transmission is locked. They had to lift here up with an M88 and pull her with the 5 ton from what I was told, Wasn't there at the time, was getting my DD214 Smile .

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

Yeah... Sorry to see that one go... She was recovered from Tunisia... Thankfully I did manage to get a full walk-around a few years ago...

Good side



Bad side



But at least "we" (Ordnance Museum) still have the hyrdro-static drive PzKpfw IV Ausf FG... Which is a little more interesting to me personally, wasnt cut open, has a turret shield, and in general in better condition IMO...





Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:06 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

I heard that 'she' will be exhibited beside the Tiger 2.
More info as I get it.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

Makes sense. Do you think the staff will try to create a similar cutaway/interior display - or cover over the cutaways?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

- Neil_Baumgardner
Makes sense. Do you think the staff will try to create a similar cutaway/interior display - or cover over the cutaways?

Neil


I hope it will remain open & viewable, but that in itself means 'she' will need more than just an exterior cosmetic resto.

Remember the Tiger 2 got a fairly extensive restoration, upon arrival here. Although the engine compartment remained untouched, the turret work is fairly detailed, having spent some time in the Tiger 2 interior.

A turret stand was fabricated for the Tiger 2, which still exists in Richardson MP.

I assume the Panzer IV's interior will need significant preservation work, to reverse the effects of Mother Nature.

Stay tuned....
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

More on the "new acquisition."

www.armorfortheages.co...alpage.htm

BTW, not sure if its an F2 (as listed on armorfortheages) or not. FWIW, the Ordnance Museum said it was an Ausf G...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:51 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

As you have learned, the Armor for the Ages site is back up with photos of the Panzer IV. I'm not sure at this time if the correct designation is F2 or G. Typically, a Panzer IV with the 75/L43 with globular muzzle brake has been designated an F2. The F1 version had the 75/L24. Otherwise they were the same. The one wrinkle is that early versions of the G also had the same muzzle brake. The G version had the side vision ports on the turret removed, as does this one. So, I guess it is a G.

The cutaway sides will be left open and fitted with plexiglass the same as the Tiger II. How extensive the cosmetic restoration will be is the curator's decision.

The curator requested the Pz IV and traded our Dodge maintenance truck for it.

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:04 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

Garry,

No, I didn't drive anything, though I'm sure "OB" would have let me If I had been able to stay longer.

I saw the maintenance truck, I think Knox got the better of the deal, although the truck did run and was in much better shape. Does that mean if I find an old Dodge WC I can trade it for an old tank at APG Wink ?

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:19 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

Maybe. I'm not sure why they made the trade. Just conjecture on my part, but since the APG material will be transferred to Fort Lee which will be the center of the new Transportation, Quartermaster and Ordnance command, maybe they needed that type of vehicle for their new museum. So, if you find a vehicle they need, maybe they will trade you for it. Got room for an Elefant in your front yard? Smile

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:52 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

Yeah, for better or worse... The Ordnance Museum needs softskin vehicles - having apparently given up most/all in the 1970s or so before Dr Atwater arrived... So its missing a good chunk of the Ordnance materiel story...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

As I understand it although it is a 'trade' it was viewed as a chance to material that is appropriate for the mission of each museum in the collection into the museums collection. Ordnance is about support, not tanks as such. So getting maintenance vehicles is important.

At the same time the Museum understands that they need to group exhibits into priority groups and all will probably not be sent to Ft Lee due to space and budget constraints.

I think I mentioned a while back that the Czech S-35 is going back home to Europe ( I think Slovakia but it may be another part of the old Czechoslovakia) It may already be gone

And just to be clear all the above is my opinion and interpretation of conversations I have had with folks at Aberdeen. It has NO official standing at all.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Something old

My $0.02, thoughts, clarification, etc...

Ordnance is about Combat Services Support, yes... But in terms of equipment it is now a relatively minor "customer" or "user" of vehicles, whereas in the past (prior to the establishment of the Army Materiel Command in 1962) it was a major _buyer_ , as well as tester & evaluator, of equipment.

Almost all of the equipment in the museum dates from this period. Most of the US vehicles, firearms, etc date were first bought by & evaluated by the Ordnance board at APG. After 1962, AMC took on responsibility for buying vehicles & equipment, although vehicles continued to be tested at APG... As such many of those items continued to be passed on the Ordnance Museum...

Similarly, all of the foreign equipment in the Ordnance Museum was tested by Ordnance Technical Intelligence or later the foreign military intelligence outfits at APG...

However... Sometime in the 1970s most if not all softskins in the Museum's collection were let go for whatever reason - even though photo evidence shows there were once a considerable number of softskin vehicles in the museum's collection prior to the move to the current location (from another part of the post). I will freely admit & note that the Ordnance Museum became somewhat unbalanced at that point - not telling the whole story of what the Ordnance Corps bought, testes & used...

IMO, while I regret the loss of the PzKpfw IV, the acquistion of the Dodge truck probably helps to rebalance the museum's story (regardless of location)...

Now whether or not articles tested at APG - which are really part of the APG story, not really the Ordnance Corps story - should go to Fort Lee as well is a much more messy discussion that potentially leads to some messy outcomes I dont care to get into just yet...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:46 am
Post subject: Re: Something old

- Garry_Redmon
As you have learned, the Armor for the Ages site is back up with photos of the Panzer IV. I'm not sure at this time if the correct designation is F2 or G. Typically, a Panzer IV with the 75/L43 with globular muzzle brake has been designated an F2. The F1 version had the 75/L24. Otherwise they were the same. The one wrinkle is that early versions of the G also had the same muzzle brake. The G version had the side vision ports on the turret removed, as does this one. So, I guess it is a G.


It doesn't make much sense to try to distinguish between an F2 and a (early) G as they were for all intents and purposes the same vehicle. An Ausf. G is by definition an Ausf. F with a longer gun and the associated changes to ammo stoorage etc.

The F2 designation only came about because it was decided to start Ausf. G production before the Ausf. F production order had run its course. Hence, for a short period in 1942, the F2 designation was used to make apart the Ausf. F tanks with the short gun and (F1) and those with the long gun (F2). Once they started on the Ausf. G production order, the Ausf. F2 designation was dropped and all the vehicles with long guns produced on the Ausf. F production order was re-labelled Ausf. G.

So all Ausf. F2s are by definition Ausf. Gs Smile

cbo
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum