±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 531
Total: 531
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Home
04: News
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Home
10: Home
11: Member Screenshots
12: Photo Gallery
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Home
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Member Screenshots
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Statistics
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: Downloads
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Photo Gallery
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Home
63: Home
64: Home
65: Home
66: Home
67: Home
68: Home
69: Home
70: Home
71: Home
72: Home
73: Home
74: Home
75: Home
76: Home
77: Member Screenshots
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Home
81: Home
82: Home
83: Home
84: Home
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Home
89: Downloads
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Photo Gallery
94: Photo Gallery
95: Home
96: Home
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Downloads
101: Member Screenshots
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Home
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Home
111: Downloads
112: Photo Gallery
113: News
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Photo Gallery
117: Member Screenshots
118: Photo Gallery
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: News Archive
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Photo Gallery
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Member Screenshots
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Photo Gallery
147: Photo Gallery
148: Home
149: Photo Gallery
150: Downloads
151: Home
152: Photo Gallery
153: Photo Gallery
154: Home
155: Photo Gallery
156: Photo Gallery
157: Photo Gallery
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Home
162: Photo Gallery
163: Member Screenshots
164: Member Screenshots
165: Photo Gallery
166: Downloads
167: Photo Gallery
168: Photo Gallery
169: Member Screenshots
170: News
171: Home
172: Home
173: Home
174: Home
175: Home
176: Home
177: Home
178: Home
179: Home
180: Home
181: Home
182: Home
183: Home
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Member Screenshots
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Photo Gallery
191: Home
192: Home
193: Home
194: Home
195: Home
196: Home
197: Home
198: Home
199: Home
200: Home
201: Home
202: Home
203: Home
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Home
211: Home
212: Home
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Home
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Home
221: Downloads
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Downloads
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Member Screenshots
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Home
241: Member Screenshots
242: Photo Gallery
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Home
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: News Archive
254: Community Forums
255: Member Screenshots
256: Photo Gallery
257: Downloads
258: Photo Gallery
259: Your Account
260: Downloads
261: Photo Gallery
262: Downloads
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: News
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Photo Gallery
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Downloads
278: Photo Gallery
279: Community Forums
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Photo Gallery
288: Member Screenshots
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: Statistics
292: Home
293: Home
294: Home
295: Home
296: Home
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Home
303: Home
304: Home
305: Home
306: Home
307: Home
308: Home
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Photo Gallery
314: Home
315: Home
316: Home
317: Home
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Downloads
324: Home
325: Home
326: Home
327: Home
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Home
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Home
340: Photo Gallery
341: Photo Gallery
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Home
348: Photo Gallery
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Photo Gallery
352: Photo Gallery
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Photo Gallery
363: Member Screenshots
364: News
365: Home
366: Home
367: Home
368: Home
369: Home
370: Home
371: Home
372: Home
373: Home
374: Home
375: Home
376: Home
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Home
380: Home
381: Home
382: Home
383: Home
384: Home
385: Home
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Home
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Statistics
401: Home
402: Photo Gallery
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Home
406: Photo Gallery
407: Member Screenshots
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Member Screenshots
414: Community Forums
415: Member Screenshots
416: News Archive
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Photo Gallery
434: Downloads
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Home
438: Photo Gallery
439: Home
440: Photo Gallery
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Photo Gallery
445: Downloads
446: Community Forums
447: Photo Gallery
448: Home
449: Photo Gallery
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Photo Gallery
459: Photo Gallery
460: Photo Gallery
461: Member Screenshots
462: Photo Gallery
463: Home
464: Member Screenshots
465: Home
466: Downloads
467: Photo Gallery
468: Member Screenshots
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Home
473: Home
474: Home
475: Home
476: Home
477: Home
478: Home
479: Home
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Home
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Home
487: Home
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Downloads
493: Home
494: Member Screenshots
495: Downloads
496: Home
497: Home
498: Home
499: Home
500: Home
501: Home
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Downloads
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Photo Gallery
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Member Screenshots
520: Community Forums
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Photo Gallery
525: Photo Gallery
526: Photo Gallery
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Downloads
531: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
PreservedTanks.com
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11, 12, 13  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

That whole G%$#n thing,

One idiots crusade to name something.

Sometimes I guess it's all a matter of perspective. When I first came in the M60 was the Backbone of the US Army and USMC but was just starting to be replaced by the M1. No one that I could remember ever called them "Patton" during that time. Even my Senior NCO's with close to 20 years never called them Pattons, only occasionally using that term when talking about 48's. Later on as the M1 took over (Very Quickly I might add), most M1 Tankers called us "Sixty" or "Dinosaur" Jockey's. Interesting point is that we mostly used the term "M1" instead of Abrams, I guess because it rolled off the tongue so much easier.

About the M46, to my knowledge that was the first "officially" named Patton. Makes sense, much like what happened with the M1, a very popular Armor General Died suddenly and you have a new tank coming out. I can only imagine what the M1 would've been called if General Abrams had lived into retirement and died after it was fielded. The biggest difference is the M1 was an all new tank whereas the M60 in reality traces back to the Pershing, and only naming the M46 kept it from being "Pershing V" Shocked .

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

A small milestone - I've written up the first of the tanks I saw during my US trip and it's online here (it's had the 'Armour Archive' treatment if you like):

preservedtanks.com/Loc...p;Select=4

The best bet for looking through the pictures is probably to select on the first one, then use the 'VCR'-style next button. Note, not all the navigation handling is finished, so if you get lost just use your Back button.

Anyway, the aim of course is to eventually do this for all such tanks in the US (I'm guessing that's something like '1 down, 1999' to go!), based on the Preserved Tanks in the USA book/manuscript I wrote some years ago.

I'd appreciate any extra info on this vehicle that you guys can provide (all credited, of course). Here are some questions to kick things off:

1) Neil: I got the location from your Register (hence your credit), however you list it as being in the TACOM list but I haven't seen it there (so it was news to me when I went through your document). Also, the location was reported on this site by Chris_C - so should he also have a credit or did you already have it in your list? Similarly, where did you get the serial number from?

www.com-central.net/in...ston#34383

2) All: I didn't see the serial number in the Register until too late - where on the vehicle should I have looked for it? Does it relate in any way to the numbers I photographed?

3) All: My expertise is German vehicles so while I accept it's mostly likely to be an M42A1, I would be very interested to learn if there's a visual indicator I can look for to confirm whether a particular vehicle is an M42 or M42A1? (Probably similar to the question of M41/M41A1 vs M41A2?).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Any answers to those questions, guys?

Meanwhile, I've been to the Olso military museum and put a small write up on my blog:

PreservedTanks

I know there are some big fans of M48s on this forum, so here's a close up:



I'll put the rest of the photos online after I get home. The serial no. of the M24 is 5746. The M48 is harder to make out, but appears to be "A10886".

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:50 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Trevor,

SN for the M48A5 sounds correct except the last digit. I believe it should be a "0". US M48A5 SN's ran from A3001 to A3374 with the enclosed .50 Caliber M1 cupola. A3375 to A3999 had the open cupola with M60 7.62 MG, and the same for the final batch A1001-A1999. For some reason an extra digit was added to the end of the SN during a re-build phase. Sometimes it looks like a "C". Not sure why but it's not considered part of it by the manuals. There are not that many M48A5's left in the US to do comparisons. Most being sent overseas like this one or converted to AVLB's and even M247's.

Nice example, other than the Wegman grenade launchers She appears unchanged from US service.

Cannot help you with the M42 vs. M42A1 question, sorry , If I remember right, the serial number's are not marked externally.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

- Joe_D
That whole G%$#n thing,

One idiots crusade to name something.

Sometimes I guess it's all a matter of perspective. When I first came in the M60 was the Backbone of the US Army and USMC but was just starting to be replaced by the M1. No one that I could remember ever called them "Patton" during that time. Even my Senior NCO's with close to 20 years never called them Pattons, only occasionally using that term when talking about 48's. Later on as the M1 took over (Very Quickly I might add), most M1 Tankers called us "Sixty" or "Dinosaur" Jockey's. Interesting point is that we mostly used the term "M1" instead of Abrams, I guess because it rolled off the tongue so much easier.

Joe D


Joe
You sorta omitted the 'DAT / CDAT' labels.

DAT = Dumb Ass Tanker = Sixty Tanker

CDAT = Computerized Dumb Ass Tanker = M1 Tanker


Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

- Dontos


DAT = Dumb Ass Tanker = Sixty Tanker

CDAT = Computerized Dumb Ass Tanker = M1 Tanker


We called the M1 guys "Jedi tankers".
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:47 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

- tanker2010
- Dontos


DAT = Dumb Ass Tanker = Sixty Tanker

CDAT = Computerized Dumb Ass Tanker = M1 Tanker


We called the M1 guys "Jedi tankers".


Thats for the ' A - Deuce ' CDATS,...... Cool

( That is, the 'K4' M1A2 Tankers )

"May the Force be with you...!!" Mr. Green

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

I'm back from Norway.

- Joe_D
SN for the M48A5 sounds correct except the last digit. I believe it should be a "0". ... Sometimes it looks like a "C".


Thanks for that, but I see an extra curve in the digit that looks to me like it should be a 6 - any thoughts? Here's a closeup:



and with a bit of tweaking (mostly higher contrast):



I'm less convinced now about the second digit, so it looks to me like "A10886". I think, however, the last digit may just have been added to the second number, which would agree with what you're suggesting.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Trevor,

Your pictures demonstrate how frustrating it can be to get a correct Serial Number, especially on a tank that has been used many years and handed around like the M48 series.

Here is the same view of the Collegedale TN M48A5

>Larger Image

Notice that the last digit appears to be a "C" or "O", depending on which stamping you trust. Examples like yours are very hard to determine unless you grind the paint down to the bare metal. I'm wondering if it's actually a "Q" indicating a ground up refurbish done at Anniston Alabama, much like the M60A3's had stamped on them when overhauled. I just haven't seen enough M48A5's to prove this theory.

Here is an M60A3

>Larger Image

On this tank you can actually make out the original M60A1 SN 6470. Then you can see the Anniston conversion to A3 SN 2220A. There is also a letter "Q" indicated by the arrow. This was not part of the SN and added later during a rebuild.

Here's of an example of finding the correct number after cleaning off the paint.

>Larger Image

Notice the deck stamping indicates SN 891.

>Larger Image

Now you can see that this tank was from the original batch of 180 M60's made in Newark Delaware, SN 95. I try always to get the SN from the tow lug or hull, never the deck since they get swapped out very easily during maintenance.

Here is an example how old paint can make numbers appear different.

M60A3 rear hull.

>Larger Image

Looks like 2459A or 2458A, doesn't it?

Same tank tow lug after cleaning.

>Larger Image

She's actually 2450A.

Hope this bit of info helps you with M48/M60 series.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:42 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Joe,

Thanks for that - a lot to digest! I've thought before I should carry an angle grinder along with my camera and GPS...

I have a growing collection of M48/M60 serial number pictures so I'll work through them, particularly any M48A5s, and see if I can discern a pattern.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:21 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

In response to a question from Lesley I've now put the T-72 at Rochester in the database:

T-72, Chili

It includes a walkaround - it's an interesting vehicle with mine plough.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

I'm taking the family on holiday next week - funnily enough, next door to Bovington! My ambitious aim is to attempt a walkaround of all the tanks, however if someone has a particular request for something just let me know and I'll see what I can do.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:06 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

- Joe_D
I do not want a bunch of Former US Army and Marine "Sixty" Tankers (Many who have far more time on them than I) forming a mob to get me.

Now looking over my shoulder,

Joe D


They're aleady out there, Joe, but you know you can never expect to see them in those ninja suits. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2069
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Trevor,

I know of all the really special vehicles there, to ask for some decent shots of their M60A1 and a serial/ registration number confirmation might sound a bit like going to Paris just to eat at McDonalds. But I have to ask.

Should have been made as a RISE/IR but I'm sure She was upgraded to RISE/Passive if the tank came from war stocks in Germany.

SN and RN should be 8971 and JJ0128 IAW their Website.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:53 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Joe_D, no problem. What should I look for to confirm the upgrade and/or is there anything particular on it you want photographed? (As well as the walkaround and serial nos, of course).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 5 of 13
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11, 12, 13  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum