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jtrowbridge5 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 234

Stuart tanks arrive in the UK
dennis

www.milweb.net/feature...t_tank.php

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: new arrivals in the uk

Great news. I was aware of those vehicles but had never seen them except on a Brasilian website. Didn't think they'd ever see the light of day again. I had a feeling this might be them just from your post (when you used the plural).

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: Re: new arrivals in the uk

I wonder if they got US Department of State approval for re-export... I'm actually kinda serious LOL!

Neil

vmmv1 · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: new arrivals in the uk

Don't need state department approval when transporting vehicles between other countries. ps. it was a grand adventure and i am glad i was involved in it.

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: new arrivals in the uk

Umm.... Its called third-party export... Covered under International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). Those vehicles were exported under a military assistance program to Brazil. Such exports usually specify that third-party export is not allowed unless US Government approves. Now, it may be that language was not in the original agreement with the Brazilian government way back in the 1940s or whenever (which admittedly predates ITAR - but not necessarily this restriction), or it was since waived...

But I'm presuming that these vehicles were passed onto a private owner by the Brazilian government - and that the private owner has/had no idea what the original agreement was between the US and Brazilian government... Wink

And that no investigation into the original USG/Brazilian agreement was done Wink

Fact is US Government "probably" wont go after anyone for this for WWII vehicles. But I certainly wouldnt try it (without USG approval) for anything Cold War era. Canada has gotten in trouble for it a few years ago as well as others...

If the US Government gives it to you, they have a say in who you give it to later - if at all...

Neil

Garry_Redmon · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: Re: new arrivals in the uk

I doubt if any will be resold to U.S. collectors.

tankdriver · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: new arrivals in the uk

Neil is correct.

When I owned my M5A1 Stuart, I tried to get some parts in from Belgium, and was told no. Basicly the US gov feels......

Anything made for them remains thiers, even if given away.

vmmv1 · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: new arrivals in the uk

It all depends if it was sold or part of the MAP program. Importation into the US is difficult since about 94 for US vehicles. The sale of obsolete or scrape vehicles among other countries is not a problem, done all the time. The stuarts in Brazil were sold off in the late 80's as scrap. Since then some were imported into the US in the early 90's, then the US govt bought some from the gentleman in Brazil who bought them from the Brazilian govt. If the US govt. would have had a claim on those stuarts they would not have bothered to buy some for US museums. I don't think you will see any of these tanks trying to be imported into the US. Many will land up in European military museums. I am just glad that they have made their way to people who will restore them and take care of them.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: new arrivals in the uk

I look forward to seeing those appear around the UK, and perhaps further afield.

Maple_Leaf_Eh · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 517

I rode in the turret of an M3 at a vehicle rally about 20yrs ago. Very small inside, but tall enough for a modern-size man to stand in. There wasn't much room for me, somebody's children and the driver. But quiet and peppy. Glad I had the chance.

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