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Bad Idea?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Joe_D
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Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:15 am
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

Our ACU's have the "Glint Tape",

Got a little tab that covers them until you need them. Also have a "Subdued" US Flag for night ops or in tactical situations.

Don,

Only incident I remember about an M1 and a Helicopter was when one rolled down a hill in Hohenfels and stuck an AH-1. But it could've been a Huey. Was a 105 M1 if IIRC. The Parking brake failed and the engine wasn't running so the service brakes didn't work. We had a similar incident in Korea in 1st tank in '95. This time a troop was killed. Tank was parked just west of Kouma Range on the road waiting to download service rounds for M1A1 transition. The parking brakes failed and she started rolling. The turbine takes 10-15 seconds to fully spool up and until that happens the service brakes don't work. Driver didn't know he could turn on the bilge pump to build up hydraulic pressure to get the parking brake to work. The tank crashed through a Quonset hut and killed a troop who was sleeping in bed. A very bad day. There's a lot more to the whole story with some basic corrective safety measures that should've been taken, but I won't get into that. If you ever wondered why the AUX pump kicked on whenever the turret power was switched to on with the M1A1, that was one of the upgrades from the M1's. Unfortunately by '95 most crewmembers (Drivers) coming to Korea never did any time on the older M1's and didn't know the Bilge Pump trick.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:10 am
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

- Joe_D
Don,

Only incident I remember about an M1 and a Helicopter was when one rolled down a hill in Hohenfels and stuck an AH-1. But it could've been a Huey. Was a 105 M1 if IIRC. The Parking brake failed and the engine wasn't running so the service brakes didn't work.

Joe D


That might be the one, but then, theres always the 'barracks rumor syndrome' and our "Beloved Leader" was a popular topic during off duty hours.

Did you happen to know of the 1st Tank Opppps. Kouma Range, Loader training with a service HEAT Shocked ,......(BANG....BOOM!!! 'OH SSHHHHIIIIITTTTT !!!!!' ) Mr. Green

Official story was a Korean War era mine detonation (?!) (The impact,....ah, explosion, was on the face of the cliff.) I happen to have heard both the Bang & the Boom, looked up, and saw the dust cloud on the side of the mountian.

Ever spend time on Camp Bonifas in the JSA? I spent the night on Dec 31-1 Jan. NOW THAT is one scarey place!!

Don
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

Uhh,

I was told about the mine incident, never made sense to me, I remember it well. Heard bang and boom, looked up and saw all the dust Shocked . IIRC it happened right before I left. Did not know of the 1st Tank "Oops". Now I know the rest of the story Smile . For a second I thought we had incoming, but Arty from the North could not hit that side of the mountain.

The million dollar question, why was the firing pin in ? We kept them in the arms room with the back plates for the crew served. Only thing the range was approved for was sub-caliber .22 "Brewster" IIRC. Funny how the "What happens in 2ID, stays in 2ID" was back then.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

1)Firing Pins were always in the Arms room. (I've heard that there was a surplus of certain parts,....>cough, cough<, just in case one didn't make it to the Arms Room,..... )

2) TCPC at 'Taguba' Range,.....ha ha ha. ( only went there once. )

3) I heard the service round was used because no 'dummy round' was available. (instead of the 'dummy crew', that was present..... Mr. Green )

4) as for the 'Official Story',.......(yeah right!!) Since when does a single mine, have a double report? ( and it was not an echo )

Ever heard of 2nd Tanks 'Ghettoblasters'(a band?)

Life in the ROK was a totally different experience.

'SOJU HARD!!'
Don
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

Dontos said:

I've heard that there was a surplus of certain parts,....>cough, cough<, just in case one didn't make it to the Arms Room,.....




There were some guys that had one for other reasons too. Mostly for trouble shooting on command maintenance day, every Monday, with one platoon scheduled for AAC's. Also came in handy during services Wink . Also never knew when some genius would put one together wrong (120mm) and break the tip.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

- Joe_D
Dontos said:

I've heard that there was a surplus of certain parts,....>cough, cough<, just in case one didn't make it to the Arms Room,.....


There were some guys that had one for other reasons too. Mostly for trouble shooting on command maintenance day, every Monday, with one platoon scheduled for AAC's. Also came in handy during services Wink . Also never knew when some genius would put one together wrong (120mm) and break the tip.

Joe D


Wink

Anything look familiar?



Don
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

Yeah,

One on the left is the all too often seen 120mm pin that's broke. I take it the one on the right is from a 106mm RR.

Almost 10 years working with the M68 system and never seen or even heard of a broken firing pin tip. The M256 system was always having pin problems, and for that matter, breech spring, aft cap deflector, extractor shaft, and ground faults just to name a few. I always thought it had way too many moving parts that could screw up. That and the "Backward" way to open the breech with the breech handle not fixed. Just all around a Pain in the A-- system compared to the 105.

Too many nights holding a flashlight in my teeth trying to fix another breech problem Mad .

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:50 am
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

- Joe_D
Yeah,

One on the left is the all too often seen 120mm pin that's broke. I take it the one on the right is from a 106mm RR.


You are correct


Almost 10 years working with the M68 system and never seen or even heard of a broken firing pin tip.


I never understood that either, but a typical 'murphy law'

The M256 system was always having pin problems, and for that matter, breech spring, aft cap deflector, extractor shaft, and ground faults just to name a few. I always thought it had way too many moving parts that could screw up. That and the "Backward" way to open the breech with the breech handle not fixed. Just all around a Pain in the A-- system compared to the 105.

Too many nights holding a flashlight in my teeth trying to fix another breech problem Mad .

Joe D


Dropping the breech was always a 'favorite' (kidding), till the volume of extractor shafts damaged during TCGST caused an end to that,....

Don
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

Ahhhh, for the good ol' days of percussion fired 90mm M48's. Laughing
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

- Doug_Kibbey
Ahhhh, for the good ol' days of percussion fired 90mm M48's. Laughing


These are both percussion/electric detonated, tends to be a little more safe from the handling point of view.

the McGiver solution,....just a small hammer & a 9volt battery can do the trick!! Shocked

But that would be a little dangerous. Cool

Don
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:44 am
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

Doug said:

Ahhhh, for the good ol' days of percussion fired 90mm M48's. Laughing


Yeah, where the TC has to reach over and re-cock the firing pin during a misfire, and lets not forget the breech operating handle was also for the TC. (90mm M41 gun if that's what your talking about).

Don,

US 105mm ammo was strictly electric primed. UK 105mm ammo was percussion cap, that's why all the TM's had warnings to keep the primer cap in place until the round was partially chambered if you used them, and that was only "Under Combat Emergency Conditions" . Electric primed is SOOO much safer Cool . I take it the Recoiless Rifles were percussion initiated.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:56 am
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

- Joe_D
I take it the Recoiless Rifles were percussion initiated.


yup, percussion.

As a matter of fact, as I am finding, most of the AD's (mis-fires) on the Ontos, that caused command directives of NO loaded tubes while traveling or when not directly engaged, was attributed to improper adjustments with the remote firing system of the Ontos turret systems.

Rough terrain/driving conditions caused firing pin release, thus premature weapons firing.

Brings to mind the lack of understanding IRT the Aft cap deflector tray adjustments in the early days of the M1A1.

Don
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:11 am
Post subject: Re: Bad Idea?

Yeah,

They finally solved that one with the new, no roller system. Having brass guides instead. Then we started having the problems of crews trying to mix them with tanks that didn't get upgraded. Typical Army of the 90's. Instead of MWO'ing a whole Battalion or BDE, they only ordered kits for individual tanks when one broke or wore out.

Joe D
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