±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 314
Total: 314
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Home
03: Home
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Downloads
08: Community Forums
09: Member Screenshots
10: Downloads
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: News Archive
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Downloads
23: Home
24: Home
25: Home
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Home
30: Home
31: News
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Member Screenshots
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Photo Gallery
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Statistics
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Downloads
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Downloads
81: Community Forums
82: Your Account
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Member Screenshots
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Member Screenshots
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Home
99: Your Account
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Home
104: Home
105: Home
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Home
110: Home
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Downloads
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Downloads
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Photo Gallery
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Home
138: Home
139: Home
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: News Archive
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Home
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Your Account
174: Home
175: Statistics
176: Statistics
177: Home
178: Home
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Home
193: News
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Home
197: Home
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Home
202: Photo Gallery
203: News Archive
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Downloads
209: Downloads
210: Downloads
211: Downloads
212: Home
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Home
218: Home
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Home
225: Home
226: Downloads
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Photo Gallery
245: Photo Gallery
246: Home
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: Home
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Home
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Member Screenshots
277: Home
278: Photo Gallery
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Your Account
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Photo Gallery
293: Home
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Treasury
297: Home
298: Home
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: News Archive
306: Home
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Downloads
311: Statistics
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

It all seems to go back to,....where did it originate?

As I understand it, the Afghan discovered WWI TANKS (!!) are supposed to have been U.S. manufactured, FT17's (aka FT18 ?, M1918 ?).

I don't know what the exact model is called. There are some differences between 'our' M1918 & FT17, so I assume them to be different models (ie FT17 being French make & FT18 being US make of same tank).

I guess I need to add this subject to my 'gotta find out for myself' file.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

notice both types of turrets on French machines, I go for the mufflers,,its easy and simple


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.

As Neil says, there is some controversy over 'FT-18', in fact even 'FT-17'. The French apparently only ever used the term FT, and allocating model numbers (to represent 1917 and 1918) has been done since so is not 'official'. In any case, they only apply to French vehicles, the US one is M1917 (no 'FT').

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- TrevorLarkum
Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.


Ah HA!! There are both examples here, which match up to supposed manufacturer. That makes sense, Thank you!


As Neil says, there is some controversy over 'FT-18', in fact even 'FT-17'. The French apparently only ever used the term FT, and allocating model numbers (to represent 1917 and 1918) has been done since so is not 'official'. In any case, they only apply to French vehicles, the US one is M1917 (no 'FT').


Okay, so,....all US made FT17's (with metal front idler wheels) are actually M1917's??

"MY BRAIN HURTS!!" (ref: one of my favorite lines ala Monty Python)
Mr. Green
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- TrevorLarkum
Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.


However, the wooden parts of the wheels were sometimes replaced by metal parts (because of the wood decay). But the French wheel has a very different design compared to the US one, and even with metal sheets replacing wood ones, it can be easily identified as French.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

Fort Brown, Brownsville, Texas circa 1918


_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

again the muffler always works.........always
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

So is this an FT-17? This is the picture that got my curiosity going Smile


_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

No muffler on this side I believe would make this a French Renault FT17..plus I don't if this is always the case but the US tanks seem to have lifting points just to the rear of the turret and I don't seem to see any on the French models....The US models had Buda engines in them...is it snowing in chicago?
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- Dontos


Okay, so,....all US made FT17's (with metal front idler wheels) are actually M1917's??


FT-17s were built (in France) by Renault. Most were used by the French army, but some were given to the US army & used in France (such as by Patton). There are very few actual FT-17s in the US. One American combat-survivor FT-17 is at the Fort Meade Museum.

M1917s were a license-built copy made in the US. Mostly used for training in the 1920s. None, that I am aware of, went to France and actually fought. A few surviving examples have bullet marks from testing...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- the_shadock
- TrevorLarkum
Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.


However, the wooden parts of the wheels were sometimes replaced by metal parts (because of the wood decay). But the French wheel has a very different design compared to the US one, and even with metal sheets replacing wood ones, it can be easily identified as French.

P-O


Yeah, I didnt think you could trust the wooden vs metal wheels aspect...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

According to my info, including from Hayes Otoupalik (best source of info I have found), is for the following FT-17s & M1917s in the US:

FT-17s:
Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor, FORT KNOX, KY (1)
Jackson Barracks Military Museum, NEW ORLEANS, LA (1)
Fort George G. Meade Museum, FORT GEORGE G. MEADE, MD (1 - “Five of Hearts" - US Army WWI combat veteran)
National World War I Museum at Liberty Memorial, KANSAS CITY, MO (1, French Army WWI combat veteran)
Brent Mullins Jeep Parts, COLLEGE STATION, TX (1)

FT-17 with M1917 turret:
US Army Ordnance Museum, ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MD (1 - "K-K-K-Katy;" supposedly the French sample given to the US for licensed production - in storage)

"FT-18"s:
Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor, FORT KNOX, KY (2, including 1 on display)

M1917s:
Military Vehicle Technology Foundation, PORTOLA VALLEY, CA (1)
Military Museum of Southern New England, DANBURY, CT (1)
Miller Park, BLOOMINGTON, IL (1)
1st Division Museum at Catigny, WHEATON, IL (1 - US M1917 given to Canada & later recovered)
Historical Military Armor Museum, ANDERSON, IN (1)
Ropkey Armor Museum, CRAWFORDSVILLE, IN (1 - infamous Alexandria / Nitro example)
Private owner, KANSAS CITY, KS (1)
Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor, FORT KNOX, KY (1)
US Army Ordnance Museum, ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MD (1 - pilot M1917 - owned by Smithsonian / USMC)
Private owner, MISSOULA, MT (1)
VFW Post 2290, MANVILLE, NJ (1)
Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, RHINEBECK, NY (1)
West Point Museum, WEST POINT, NY (1)
Pennsylvania Military Museum, BOALSBURG, PA (1)
American Armored Foundation (AAF) Tank Museum, DANVILLE, VA (1)
Virginia War Museum, NEWPORT NEWS, VA (1)
Virginia Museum of Military Vehicles (VMMV), NOKESVILLE, VA (1)

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- MarkHolloway
So is this an FT-17? This is the picture that got my curiosity going Smile



This one "should" be an M1917, if its the one in Wheaton, IL... For one, Hayes Otoupalik says it is, and that it was assembled from parts found in Canada in the 1990s. Which would make sense as a number of M1917s (and Mk VIII Liberty tanks) were given to Canada to start off its armored force in 1939.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- armyjunk2
No muffler on this side I believe would make this a French Renault FT17..


The muffler is missing on that tank, but you can still see the rear part of it on the side of the tank.. so this is confirmed to be an M1917.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- Neil_Baumgardner
- the_shadock
- TrevorLarkum
Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.


However, the wooden parts of the wheels were sometimes replaced by metal parts (because of the wood decay). But the French wheel has a very different design compared to the US one, and even with metal sheets replacing wood ones, it can be easily identified as French.

P-O


Yeah, I didnt think you could trust the wooden vs metal wheels aspect...

Neil


Here you can see an FT-17 wheel with wood sheets :





Compared to an FT-17 wheel with metal sheets :





Compared to the M1917 wheel, really typical of the tank :




_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum