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Neil_Baumgardner

I am aware of the following XM247s, as listed in the USA AFV Register. Would appreciate any further details...

U.S. Army Center for Military History Storage Facility, ANNISTON ARMY DEPOT, AL

YUMA PROVING GROUND, AZ

Arkansas National Guard Museum, Camp Robinson, LITTLE ROCK, AR

Storage, U.S. Army Ordnance Museum, ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MD

Fort Snelling Military Museum, MINNEAPOLIS-ST PAUL, MN

Electronic Warfare Range, DIXIE VALLEY, NV

Alvin York Tennessee NG Armory, JAMESTOWN, TN (supposedly a runner)

Sgt. Alvin C. York State Historic Park, PALL MALL, TN

Fort Bliss Museum, FORT BLISS, TX

Is this unnamed facility NAWS China Lake by chance? Wink

Neil

68Barracuda

- Neil_Baumgardner

I am aware of the following XM247s, as listed in the USA AFV Register. Would appreciate any further details...

U.S. Army Center for Military History Storage Facility, ANNISTON ARMY DEPOT, AL

YUMA PROVING GROUND, AZ

Arkansas National Guard Museum, Camp Robinson, LITTLE ROCK, AR

Storage, U.S. Army Ordnance Museum, ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MD

Fort Snelling Military Museum, MINNEAPOLIS-ST PAUL, MN

Electronic Warfare Range, DIXIE VALLEY, NV

Alvin York Tennessee NG Armory, JAMESTOWN, TN (supposedly a runner)

Sgt. Alvin C. York State Historic Park, PALL MALL, TN

Fort Bliss Museum, FORT BLISS, TX

Is this unnamed facility NAWS China Lake by chance?

Neil

Yup....

Dontos

- Neil_Baumgardner

- Dontos

I used to have the PROMOTIONAL 'DIVAD GUN' coloring book. My father brought it home (during that time).

It had that 'gunfighter' logo, as I recall. Before the days of the 'Sgt York' nomenclature.

Don

BTW, also notice the Abrams tanks in the painting seem to have XM1 Chrysler turrets...

Neil

HA, yeah, actually I had noticed them. Sorta 'time dates' when the illustration was done.

Don

MarkHolloway

There were several of them at the White Sands Missile Range target shop. They had removed the turrets and fabricated new turrets to make them look like tanks. It was sad. The chassis were fresh rebuilds. Headed for destruction.

MarkHolloway

Anniston:

Neil_Baumgardner

US Army Ordnance Museum, APG, MD

Fort Snelling Military Museum, Minneapolis-St Paul, MN

Dixie Valley, NV

www.geocaching.com/see...ab98e0964a

Neil

Rikard_Hufschmied

Well, as this thread proves the final word on the subject is yet to be written/disclosed. On a personal note it baffles me how a superpower could fail to field a modern SPAAG at the height of the cold war. How could the task fail? Could the "errors of way" be traced back as far as the cancellation of the Sperry Vigilante?

The proven components concept was a good idea but so many things seems to have gone awry for all the wrong reasons (political shortsightedness for one).

It is always enlightening and fascinating to get to hear a voice from the "inside" of things Smile

Dennis_Smith · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 17, 2006 Posts: 192

During the last few conflicts, the U.S. Airforce demonstrated why anti-aircraft guns are obsolete.

68Barracuda

During the last few scuffles...how many of the bad guys were using <insert guidence system of choice here> AAA vs "spray and pray"?

Dennis_Smith · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 17, 2006 Posts: 192

I suspect "spray and pray" was their only option. If they had switched on their radar, they would not have lived very long.

Neil_Baumgardner

<ahem> 1999... Serbia... F-117...

Neil

Dennis_Smith · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 17, 2006 Posts: 192

Military analysts were on TV the next day saying it was sheer luck. The Air Force was ready to ground the F-117s if there had been a flaw in the stealth technology.

Of course, we're missing the main point. U.S. military cancelled the anti-aircraft gun program because when the Air Force gets thru with their invasion preparations, there are no enemy aircraft left.

Neil_Baumgardner

- Dennis_Smith

Military analysts were on TV the next day saying it was sheer luck. The Air Force was ready to ground the F-117s if there had been a flaw in the stealth technology.

There's been plenty of analysis to the contrary since... Whether it was a good "paint" from a relatively unsophisticated SA-2 radar set, or some sophisticated Ukrainian or Czech UWB radar. If you look back at the history of stealth development in the 1980s, there was always some skepticism with regard to its ability to work in a highly integrated air defense system - such as the Soviet Union - where there will be multiple radar sets painting aircraft from almost every possible angle (including ones that arent advantageous to the stealth aircraft).

Serbia is the only opponent we have faced since the end of the Cold War that really had an integrated air defense network - with such overlapping coverages & sophistication. And they were also smart and turned off radars so as to avoid their destruction on "day 1" so they could be used later...

But this is beyond the point, except that someone asked when USAF aircraft have been shot down by foreign missiles vs AAA.

The real determiner is when was the last time US ground forces were bombed by an enemy air force - that was Korea. For that reason, ground-based air defense for ground forces has been a fairly low priority since Vietnam or so... IMO, it was hard to really justify SHORAD investment during the late Cold War because of other competing priorities - Abrams, Bradley - that seemed more likely to be needed. The US Army has since shelved most of its SHORAD assets, and other militaries (Germans) have done the same - because the threat just isnt there...

Neil

Rikard_Hufschmied

- Dennis_Smith

During the last few conflicts, the U.S. Airforce demonstrated why anti-aircraft guns are obsolete.

Now, that's exactly the kind of complacency that can get you into serious trouble. IMO It's like omitting the machine guns/cannons on the original F4 Phantom because dogfights were a thing of the past and missiles were the way to go ... wait, wasn't the Vigilante scrapped for a missile system Wink

?

And we're talking the cold war era!

If air supremacy is achieved then yes, a SPAAG is close to redundant. But then we should be well pleased that it never came to a critical condition in Europe when facing the Soviet Union. Close in SPAAG is never redundant though as it only takes one attack helicopter/gunship to make a considerable mess, introduce a second and your armor formation really is in trouble.

68Barracuda

Okay so there's very little to no threat from enemy aircraft...what about surface to surface missles...your basic home made rocket launched from the roof of that pre-school across the border. How would a line of DIVAD like systems do against this threat? Obviously bombing the cr@p out of the launch sites would only inflame things so.....

How would this system (or similar) do against mortars (wasn't there something in the works "phalanx" like?) Or did the Air Force say it wasn't needed and they could do it with F-16's Rolling Eyes

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