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Dontos · Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: T95 / T96 rehash

I came upon this photo today, while doing some 'digging' at the library.

Where is this ?? (looks sorta familiar)

This is T96 pilot #2 RN 9B1053

Also found a lot of SN /RN /pilot # information

Regards
Don

bsmart · Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Interesting

I didn't know anything about the T96 so I pulled out 'Searching For Perfection - An Encyclopedia of U.S. Army T-series Vehicle Development' to look it up.

Here is what it says about the T96

Tank, 105mm Gun, T96. A joint development of the Ford motor Company and Detroit Arsenal, the T96 program was to combine the chassis of the T95 90mm Gun Tank with a new series of 105mm Gun armed turrets to produce the T96. Design study only, no production, circa 1957.

There are several T95 vehicles listed with 105mm guns including a

Tank, 105mm Gun, T95E4. This was a T95 chassis modified into a T95E4 by mounting a T120 105mm Gun in a T96 turret. Two vehicles were modified to T95E4 standards before the E4 project was terminated in March of 1959

Dontos · Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Here is an earlier photo of the same T96 #2:

The T96 is developed from the T95 project.

Heres a flow chart to confuse the matter:

Don

JeffStringer · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 637

Okay, this is embarrassing but here it comes ...

... WOW! That is way too cool! I have never seen this beast before!

Sorry! Rolling Eyes

Joe_D · Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Uhhh Don,

That top picture is in front of TACOM in Detroit. It's of the a M48A1E2 chassis that tested the Diesel engine for the M60 and was used for the development of the M48A3 with the "D" model turret that was proposed for the M60A2. That vehicle is now in Armada Michigan. Notice the support rollers and different gun mantle.

Joe D

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:56 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

oh,.....okay.

I'm working off of too much data and mislabeled that,.....but the turret still is one of the T96 style. Rolling Eyes

These were not labeled, but mixed in with the T96 stuff:

This is another T95 (test rig):

Don

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:57 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- Joe_D

Uhhh Don,

That top picture is in front of TACOM in Detroit. It's of the a M48A1E2 chassis that tested the Diesel engine for the M60 and was used for the development of the M48A3 with the "D" model turret that was proposed for the M60A2. That vehicle is now in Armada Michigan. Notice the support rollers and different gun mantle.

Joe D

To say nothing of the hulls, apparent from the front glacis.

Why is the gun tube so short with bore evacuators placed proportionately? Was there to be a demo variant?

bsmart · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Where's Neil? He was tracking these. I think Pilot 4 (Chassis 9) may be the one that is now in Weirton WV. I know we have an old thread about this

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- JG300-Ascout

To say nothing of the hulls, apparent from the front glacis.

Why is the gun tube so short with bore evacuators placed proportionately? Was there to be a demo variant?

The turret has the XM81, 152mm gun system. I believe it is the development 'chain' to the M60A2 turret system.

T95 (test rig) in the LST is THAT configuration. Trying to dig up stuff on it.

Don

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:12 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- bsmart

Where's Neil? He was tracking these. I think Pilot 4 (Chassis 9) may be the one that is now in Weirton WV. I know we have an old thread about this

Bob

I know Neil will chime in, when he pops up next time.

I have 'oodles' of SN/RN/vehicle types data to fill in some of the gaps (hopefully).

I leafed thru several volumes of dedicated data, only got a few tidbits. Guess I'll need to gather more,....next visit.

Don

bsmart · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:15 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Here is a link to the previous T95 thread (Now that I edited the posting to include the link Rolling Eyes

)

www.com-central.net/in...sc&start=0

We might want to look at the SN/RN Neil was working on in it. It seems to be at odds with the pairings you have on first glance

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:18 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Here is some of the info I was able to 'extract'

Type Pilot # RN Chasis # Misc notes
T95 Pilot #1 9B1043 4
T95 Pilot #2 9B1044 7 Rebuilt as T95E7 (#7) 'T254E2 gun'
T95 Pilot #3 9B1045 8
T95 Pilot #4 9B1046 9
T95E1 Pilot #1 9B1047 Rebuilt as T95E7 (#5) 'American version British 105mm gun'
T95E2 Pilot #1 9B1048 Rebuilt as T95E5 'T254E2 gun'
T95E2 Pilot #2 9B1049 Rebuilt as T95E5 'T254E2 gun'
T95E3 Pilot #1 9B1050
T95E3 Pilot #2 9B1051
T95E5
T95E5
T95E6 Pilot #1
T95E6 Pilot #2
T95E6 Pilot #3
T95E6 Pilot #4
T95E7 Pilot #1
T95E7 Pilot #2
T95E8 W/ GM Diesel
T95E9 Rebuilt as T95E6 w/ 12V717 diesel
T95E10
T95E11
T95E12 Pilot #1
T95E12 Pilot #2
T96 Pilot #1 9B1052 4
T96 Pilot #2 9B1053 7
T96 Pilot #3 9B1054 8
T96 Pilot #4 9B1055 9
T95 (test rig) Pilot #1 4 (?) w/ XM81, 152mm gun system
T95 (test rig) Pilot #2 9B2027 w/ XM81, 152mm gun system
T95 (test rig) Pilot #3 9B2030
T95 (test rig) Pilot #4 9B3488

Shocked

Don

Joe_D · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:54 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Don,

I don't know much about the T-95/96 history other than the guns (T254E2 and XM81). So I'm very interested in what you dig up. The failure/cancellation of that system created the M60 series. Look forward to what else you dig up.

Notice on your chart they mention recoiling and non-recoiling mounts. Kinda hard to imagine a gun designed to function without a recoil mech that could stand those forces. It does save on a lot of space when designing a turret, But you now have a hell of a lot of kick the vehicle and FCS has to absorb. That system (T95) had a whole lotta new ideas that were still unproven or needed further development that made upgrading the M48 to the M60 a much safer and economical approach given the threat and urgency to meet it at the time. But I always wondered what could've been, just like the MBT70.

Joe D

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:06 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Ah yes, the T95 family - they give me headaches every time I look into them LOL...

I've compared your data with mine. There does seem to be some confusion regarding T95E7s & "T96"s vs T95E8s, as well as the T118s... Unfortunately, what we REALLY need is something that correlates Pilot #s, RNs or Chassis #s to Serial #s - which is what you can actually find under the front hull... The McCoy example is SN 12, Knox is SN 8...

Here's some edits & additional info to your notes:

Type Pilot # RN Chasis # Misc notes
T95 Pilot #1 9B1043 Chassis #4 Sent to APG, later converted to a T95E8
T95 Pilot #2 9B1044 Chassis #7 Sent to Knox. Rebuilt as T95E7 (#7) 'T254E2 gun' / I have this as converted to a T95E8
T95 Pilot #3 9B1045 Chassis #8 Sent to APG
T95 Pilot #4 9B1046 Chassis #9 Retained at Detroit, later fitted with variable height suspension and Integrated Fighting Compartment turret. Turret later transferred to Ford Aeroneutronics for use in Shillelagh testing.
T95E1 Pilot #1 9B1047 Chassis #5 Sent to APG. Rebuilt as T95E7 (#5) 'American version British 105mm gun' / I also have this as converted to a T95E8
T95E2 Pilot #1 9B1048 Chassis #1 Sent to APG. Rebuilt as T95E5 'T254E2 gun'
T95E2 Pilot #2 9B1049 Chassis #3 Sent to Knox, Could be the one at Fort McCoy, WI. Rebuilt as T95E5 'T254E2 gun'
T95E3 Pilot #1 9B1050 Chassis #2 Sent to Yuma, later converted to a T95E8 and then fitted with a variable height suspension, now range target at Camp Grayling, MI?
T95E3 Pilot #2 9B1051 Chassis #6 Sent to Knox, later converted to a T95E8 and then fitted with a variable height suspension and M60E2 turret - chassis no. 6. Most likely the one at Fort Knox.
T95E5
T95E5
T95E6 Pilot #1
T95E6 Pilot #2
T95E6 Pilot #3
T95E6 Pilot #4
T95E7 Pilot #1
T95E7 Pilot #2
T95E8 W/ GM Diesel
T95E8/T96 Pilot #1 9B1052 Chassis #4 Tested at Yuma, later fitted with an Integrated Fighting Compartment turret armed with a 120mm Delta gun
T95E8/T96 Pilot #2 9B1053 Chassis #7
T95E8/T96 Pilot #3 9B1054 Chassis #8
T95E8/T96 Pilot #4 9B1055 Chassis #9 Tested at Detroit Tank Arsenal
T95E9 Rebuilt as T95E6 w/ 12V717 diesel
T95E10
T95E11
T95E12 Pilot #1
T95E12 Pilot #2
T95 (test rig) Pilot #1 Chassis #4 (?) w/ XM81, 152mm gun system
T95 (test rig)/T118 Pilot #2 9B2027 T118 Combat Engineer Vehicle variant, later fitted with a variable height suspension and M48 turret / w/ XM81, 152mm gun system - very contradictory?
T118 9B2028
T118 9B2029
T95 (test rig) Pilot #3 9B2030 T95 built for, but not fitted with AVLB. Later fitted with a friction/hydropneumatic variable height suspension and M48 turret at APG. Apparently later fitted with M60E2 turret. Now in storage at Anniston Army Depot.
T95 (test rig) Pilot #4 9B3488

I still have a headache from these LOL...

Neil

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:07 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

I'm trying to organize all the vehicle data spreadsheet I posted above. Its a bit confusing but when time/date organized, it presents a decent picture of the development successes and variant directions.

I wasn't aware of the significance of this program. I may be a bit off base, but it appears that the T95 can be linked to the development of the MBT 70/ XM803/ M60A2 and some real weird M48/M60 variants.

Don

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