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The Libyan Capital of Tripolis is undergoing massive civil construction works at that time. During excavations for a new residence quarter at the seashore at the western limits of the city, a WW2 tank has been unearthed.Since Tripolis was not defended by the Axis forces in January 1943 and since the damage on the tank is too various, it seems to me that this particular vehicle was used for target practicing and then left abandoned

clausb · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 146

As this Sherman has add-on armour on the hull, wouldn't it seem rather unlikely that it has anything to do with WWII in Africa? Perhaps rather a vehicle aquired by Lybia post-war and used as a target?

Claus B

bsmart

But there isn't add on armor in front of the driver and co-driver position and I thought that was one of the first weak spots that was addressed with add on plates

claude_GILLONO · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 80

An M4A4.
This version was quite frequent in Commonwealth hands while training in North Africa before crossong to Italy.
HTH

Jared

The mantlet is a bit strange.

Joe_D

Looks like it's turned 90 degrees.

Joe D

JimWeb

Nah it couldn't be...

I seem to recall reading an article quite a few years ago about the development of the Churchill NA 75 by one of those involved In it the author said that they tried the gun mount at various angles on some damaged Shermans before settling on the upside down position and then transferring it to an actual Churchill.

I'll see if I can find the article.

Buq-Buq · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 86

I think that the rotor shield is rotated about 75-80 degrees clockwise (as viewed from the breech end). Notice where the little 'ears' are positioned.

Mark

tankbarrell · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 56

The M34 mantlet is only held on with 4no. 5/8" screws and in this case it almost certainly has broken screws and the shield has turned and slipped off a little. The M34A1 mantlet is held on with 6no. 1" screws.

It is an M4A4 converted to twin GM diesels from an M4A2 and used as a range target.

Dontos

I thought I'd add my 2 cents to the conversation

Regards
Don

tankbarrell · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 56

Not sure what that adds.... A head on of a large hatch hull with an M34 mount, not a production model. Are you saying you disagree about it being an M4A4?

bsmart

Looking at the spacing of the suspension I don't think there is much doubt about it being an M4A4 hull. I'm curious as to how we know it was converted to have twin diesels from an M4A2.

tankbarrell · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 56

I have an M4A4 I restored and so am very familiar with the engine installation. This tank is quite different. The extra filler pipes are typical of M4A2 oil tank fillers, the M4A4 air cleaner pipe holes are covered as a result, what looks llike an M4A2 fuel tap is visible on the bulkhead and the perforated fuel tank cover plates are often seen in M4A2.
Ok, it's not a definate without seeing a better view but it's also not an uncommon conversion in that part of the world.
I'd risk £10 on a bet!

Dontos

I don't dispute the ID as I'm not quite as proficient distnguishing Shermans.

I've got a bit of experience crewing an operational M4 & M4A2, aand I've turned a wrench or two on several Sherman projects, but I'm actually not a big fan.

I Just thought each image helped ID that vehicle as having M4A4 & some M4A2 features.

Regards
Don

bsmart

tankbarrell wrote:

I have an M4A4 I restored and so am very familiar with the engine installation. This tank is quite different. The extra filler pipes are typical of M4A2 oil tank fillers, the M4A4 air cleaner pipe holes are covered as a result, what looks llike an M4A2 fuel tap is visible on the bulkhead and the perforated fuel tank cover plates are often seen in M4A2.
Ok, it's not a definate without seeing a better view but it's also not an uncommon conversion in that part of the world.
I'd risk £10 on a bet!

I am constantly amazed at how much information some folks can garner from a realtivly limited photo. As I said I could tell it was an M4A4 hull because of the bogie spacing. I was curious as to whether something in the picture told you it had been converted or if you knew more about that particular hull than had come across in the message thread.

I had never heard of Shermans having their engines converted during that time frame. Do you know if it was common?