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3R22R · Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Spotting Rifles

I do not remember where I read that, but I recall the Israeli put a M2 HB on the barrel of a 105mm gun (or 120mm)for the gunner to engage targets that do not need that much firepower, You dont need the main gun to engage a truck or crunchies.

Joe_D · Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:38 am Post subject: Re: Spotting Rifles

You dont need the main gun to engage a truck or crunchies.

Yes,

Something a lot of us in Korea felt we needed when the M1A1 replaced the M1 there in '95. Forty 120mm vs fifty-five 105mm. Big difference. Why waste a HEAT round on something the M2 could take out. Army finally got something called the CSSAMS (Acronym might be spelled wrong) around 2004. Every once in a while a picture will show up with one mounted.

T26E4 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Apr 14, 2006 Posts: 42

Bren LMG on Sherman barrels

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Spotting Rifles

- T26E4

Bren LMG on Sherman barrels

That looks like it might have been taken on a range firing line. Do you have any indication if they were being used as ranging spotters or main gun simulators for training?

T26E4 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Apr 14, 2006 Posts: 42

It's from this site, with pics of training range equipment on both tanks and arty pieces

www.mapleleafup.org/fo...ht=gunnery

Jason_Bobrowich · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Aug 09, 2006 Posts: 71

The Bren gun mounted on the barrel is a subcalibre device for gunnery training....it is not a ranging gun.

These were common place on Canadian and British tanks and evolved over the years.

They were used on the Canadian Shermans, Centurions, Leopards, and Cougars.

One of the subcalibre devices on the Cougars consisted of a .50 Cal on a special mount on the turret slaved to the main gun and a solenoid connected to the gunner's firing trigger....it fired bursts of 3 tracers.

The other subcalibre device used was a modified .22 in a custom built mount on the turret. It would be fired on a miniature 25 m range at small rubber tank targets.....when it was set up properly it worked very well to allow the gunner to concentrate on observing the small fall of shot and make accurate corrections. There was also a special lens that was fitted to the sights to magnify the sight picture.....all very low tech but effective to practice gunnery skills on a budget.

Joe_D · Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Spotting Rifles

That last one sounds very much like our "Brewster" device,

Used a .22 adapter in a standard M16A1 rifle. In theory a good idea but the way it was mounted the system always lost boresight when reloading or charging the weapon (Done a lot since the .22 usually didn't recoil hard enough to chamber the next round). Those mini 25m tank ranges reminded me of the carnival, since the ones I've used had a moving target array very similar to the "Duck Shoot" in a shooting gallery.

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