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JimWeb · Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: Speaking of the M60

Has anyone come across an M60 with what looks like a 105mm with a smooth-bore barrel?

Reason I ask is that I noticed a reference in a document at the UK Public Records Office to an early prototype of the 110mm barrel, supplied by the UK, being fitted to an M60 and a much later annotation that the vehicle still existed as a monument - location unspecified.

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

This sounds familiar. ISTR a picture circulating at one time (to much speculation about what it might mean) that showed what appeared to be a smooth-bore weapon on an M60 taken pretty much from the muzzle. I don't think we could tell how far down the bore the smoothness went and there were questions about whether is was a smoothbore in fact, a de-milling procedure, or something else altogether.

bsmart · Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

I remember a thread here a while back about an M60 with a smoothbore. I'm trying to remember where it was. a voice in the back of my head says it was at Range control at a base in Texas

Joe_D · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

Jim,

I would love to see that reference, especially if it has where the gun was made (ROF Leeds?) or even a serial number. Since I believe the tank your talking about is SN 10, which was last seen and documented by Jeff Button a couple of years back. It was in a Fort Hood Motor Pool belonging to the Fourth Infantry Division. Caused quite a stir when he posted this picture,

I first thought it might have been a defective barrel that didn't go through the broaching process of rifling. But after looking at the pictures the bore was to nicely finished for that. I Was hoping he'd get me a serial number from the breech side of the tube. Watervliet NY keeps really good records and I thought maybe they could explain this one. Couldn't really close the loop on it since I was overseas at the time. The 110mm seems like a really, really good explanation. A standard 105mm tube casting could be autofrettaged to 110mm if you didn't need to cut the rifling. Doing that would allow it to work with the standard M68 breech, making a swap quite simple.

I now all of a sudden want to take a trip to Texas, If I only knew for sure I could get access to to it. That tank is one on my short list of oddities I wanted to check out in person.

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

- Joe_D

Jim,

I now all of a sudden want to take a trip to Texas, If I only knew for sure I could get access to to it. That tank is one on my short list of oddities I wanted to check out in person.

Joe,

Jeff doesn't check in as often as he used to (maybe 'cuz on military computer), but I routinely hear from him via email. Can put you in touch, I bet he can help. Certainly he'd let you know. PM or email me, I think you have the addy.

D.

Joe_D · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

Doug,

Will do.

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

- Joe_D

Doug,

Will do.

Email sent, you're copied, so watch for incoming from me and Jeff once he picks it up. Good people, great family. lot's of historical interest so I know you'll hit it off. Just wish I could be there so we could make it an "event".

Always the bridesmaid, never the bride...(sigh) story of my life.

Sabot · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

I can't access this site from a government computer.

Joe_D · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

Rob,

Stinks don't it, I had the same problem when I was working. Cuts down on many members contributions Sad

.

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

It's the price we pay (and the only price, I might add) for having security from spammers and spam 'bots such as the ones that ruined the old site. It was open, but also open to ~250,000 spam posts in it's last year (I know, I was deleting something like 300-400 a day and it just went up from there). It became unusable and the site admins were not disposed to introduce any sort of security measures, for whatever reason

This site has none of those sorts of issues, but because it's linked to a "gaming" site, some businesses and the military often block access. I've encountered this in a few hotels and airport lounges myself.

Then again, the admins are very responsive whenever someone has an issue, the security stops all but the occasional human spammer who goes to the trouble to register (and goes "poof" along with his first, rapidly disappearing spam post), and it's all provided at no charge.

Joe_D · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

No complaints about this site, I remember the dreaded "Spam-Bot Invasion"

It's those draconian rules that admins have to enforce because of some idiots abusing their access or spending their day chatting/browsing instead of working. Used to drive me nuts when I worked in the BDE S3 shop and constantly heard weird noises in the background. Was a certain NCO who spent most of the day playing on line games, then complained he never had enough time to do his work (if that's what you could call it).

SFC_Jeff_Button · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

I just found the old thread about this M60 and have brought it to this page, (it was 50 pages back from late summer 2006). Its the "Sweet M60 found at Ft Hood". Check it out. I hope to find the interior pictures I shot soon.

Dontos · Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

- Joe_D

No complaints about this site, I remember the dreaded "Spam-Bot Invasion"

It's those draconian rules that admins have to enforce because of some idiots abusing their access or spending their day chatting/browsing instead of working. Used to drive me nuts when I worked in the BDE S3 shop and constantly heard weird noises in the background. Was a certain NCO who spent most of the day playing on line games, then complained he never had enough time to do his work (if that's what you could call it).

My last 4 years in the Army were spent as my Squadrons Information Management NCOIC (or Network administrator). I have seen first hand, that growing abuse, which has resulted in the restrictions that are in place now.

A pity since alot of my acummulated knowledge in the way of AFV history and the sharing of that information, was done on government computers, within the restrictions of the time.

In the 3 years (has it been that long !?) since I retired, automation usage and restrictions, would have prohibited me from what I was able to learn & contribute.

Welcome back Jeff.

Regards
Don

JimWeb · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

- Joe_D

Jim,

I would love to see that reference, especially if it has where the gun was made (ROF Leeds?) or even a serial number. Since I believe the tank your talking about is SN 10, which was last seen and documented by Jeff Button a couple of years back. It was in a Fort Hood Motor Pool belonging to the Fourth Infantry Division. Caused quite a stir when he posted this picture,

I first thought it might have been a defective barrel that didn't go through the broaching process of rifling. But after looking at the pictures the bore was to nicely finished for that. I Was hoping he'd get me a serial number from the breech side of the tube. Watervliet NY keeps really good records and I thought maybe they could explain this one. Couldn't really close the loop on it since I was overseas at the time. The 110mm seems like a really, really good explanation. A standard 105mm tube casting could be autofrettaged to 110mm if you didn't need to cut the rifling. Doing that would allow it to work with the standard M68 breech, making a swap quite simple.

I now all of a sudden want to take a trip to Texas, If I only knew for sure I could get access to to it. That tank is one on my short list of oddities I wanted to check out in person.

They are suddenly very particular about people scanning/photocopying documents at the PRO (something to do with ruining the original) but they will do an electronic copy once for their archives but there is a long waiting list. I have added the document to the list and as soon as I get a copy I'll send one to you. Could be at least four months though.

Joe_D · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of the M60

Thanks Jim,

I am still waiting for a positive location on this tank from Jeff Button. Once he has a fixed location I will drive down to Texas and go over her with a fine tooth comb, sharing my results and images here. One way or another I'd like to put this mystery to bed.

Based on reports from Bob Smart and the moving of vehicles, I now have to bump up my plans for Aberdeen too. They have a three shock M60 hull (SN #7) that needs explaining. Very unusual since it should've been made with none and then upgraded to two. Much greater undertaking to install 3 per side. But being Aberdeen, nothing surprises me. Knox is another on my to do soon list with the clock running out. Got some oddities there too.

All these tanks have been sitting at their locations for decades and now they decide to play musical chairs.

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