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west-front · Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: Posted in error Please delete

Posted in error Please delete

west-front · Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: Posted in error Please delete

west-front · Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: Posted in error Please delete

Posted in error Please delete

supertsar · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Posts: 38

Great pics!

In the last pic from L -R it looks like they are holding;
M61 APC; M72 Shot; M48 HE; M61: M61

Does that look right?

Interesting that they would be loading up and carrying uncapped rounds (M72). I wonder if this was intentional on the part of the ordnance/supply people or if the M72 was just substitute standard they had to use out of necessity.

JeffStringer · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 637

I don't see Humphrey Bogart in any of those. Sad

west-front · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: Posted in error Please delete

Posted in error Please delete

Buq-Buq · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 86

In the last pic from L -R it looks like they are holding;
M61 APC; M72 Shot; M48 HE; M61: M61

Does that look right?

Interesting that they would be loading up and carrying uncapped rounds (M72). I wonder if this was intentional on the part of the ordnance/supply people or if the M72 was just substitute standard they had to use out of necessity.

supertsar:

I'm not an expert in U.S. WWII-era tank ammunition, but I think that your ID on those rounds is correct.

It is interesting that you bring up the M72 AP Shot . . . these pictures were taken at the beginning of December, before the latest ammunition tends had reached the U.S. forces in North Africa. In the period of time between the departure of 1st Armored Division from the U.S. (to Ireland, and thence on to the TORCH landings) and December 1942, the Americans had down-graded the M72 round for the 75mm M2 & M3 gun to the status of 'training ammunition'. Of course, the 1AD had already left for war, and "they fought with what they brung" — uncapped M72 AP Shot.

This episode came to light when a delegation, including LTG Devers and BG Barnes, visited U.S. troops in Tunisia at the end of December. As The Battle History of the 1st Armored Division (by George F. Howe) says: "[Devers and Barnes] stopped for a two-day visit, having just come from observing with British Eighth Army in Libya . . . Barnes discovered to his amazement that Combat Command B was not yet receiving armor-piercing ammunition adopted since it had left the United States, but was using what now passed for training ammunition. No wonder the 37mm antitank gun and even the short 75mm tank gun seemed so futile against a Mark IV!"

Obviously, this photo proves that some of the newer M61 APCBC ammo was actually available to U.S. forces in North Africa. The scale of issue of this more potent ammunition would be interesting to know.

By the way, west-front: great pictures. More of these taken at the same time can be found in Allied-Axis Issue 14, by Ampersand Publishing. Great stuff.

Mark

JeffStringer · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 637

Here are a few of my favorite M3 links.

www.afrikakorps.org/m3lee.htm

anzacsteel.hobbyvista....m3ph_1.htm

Did you notice that in the movie "Sahara", the recoil guard of the 75MM cannot be seen? Like they removed it for the movie?

Joe_D

Like I've always said,

No matter what time in history or who's Army, Tankers just look different than most troops, usually disheveled and always dirty/greasy.