±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 251
Total: 251
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Photo Gallery
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Home
06: Photo Gallery
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Member Screenshots
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Photo Gallery
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Photo Gallery
38: Member Screenshots
39: Photo Gallery
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Home
44: Photo Gallery
45: Home
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Downloads
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: News Archive
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Downloads
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Your Account
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Photo Gallery
80: Photo Gallery
81: Home
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: News Archive
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Home
100: Photo Gallery
101: Search
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Photo Gallery
109: Photo Gallery
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: Home
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Photo Gallery
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: News
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Downloads
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Member Screenshots
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Photo Gallery
152: Photo Gallery
153: Photo Gallery
154: Photo Gallery
155: Photo Gallery
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Photo Gallery
164: Home
165: Photo Gallery
166: Home
167: Photo Gallery
168: Downloads
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Home
173: Photo Gallery
174: Photo Gallery
175: Home
176: Member Screenshots
177: Photo Gallery
178: Member Screenshots
179: Photo Gallery
180: Photo Gallery
181: Home
182: Photo Gallery
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Home
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Photo Gallery
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Downloads
202: Home
203: Downloads
204: Photo Gallery
205: Home
206: Photo Gallery
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Home
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Downloads
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Photo Gallery
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Downloads
230: Your Account
231: Member Screenshots
232: Photo Gallery
233: Downloads
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Photo Gallery
244: Home
245: Photo Gallery
246: Member Screenshots
247: Photo Gallery
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:04 am
Post subject: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Got back about two hours ago,

Here are some quick pictures:

Front

Rear

Left side final drive housing # 525

Left side hull front lower corner # E93

Top front hull next to driver's hatch cast mark

Right side turret cast # 203

Turret top right side behind mantle cast #7067400

Left rear tow no SN

Right rear tow lug "MISSING !!!"

It's a conspiracy!!!!!

No one at the place to ask questions. Monument was dedicated in 1989.

I have many more pictures, could not get inside, hatches were welded.

Let the discussion begin .

I'm gonna slam a few beer's and crash. Too many Red Bulls Mr. Green

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:25 am
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Good result!

Some initial observations:

- Missing original bow MG mount
- Missing original engine deck
- Something wrong with main gun? Can't quite tell - could be at full recoil, could be fake?

Joe, any close-ups of the memorial? I think I can make out "All Gave Some. Some Gave All. They will not be forgotten" but nothing else.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

yeah that's really fine !!

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Buq-Buq
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Alf, Joe:

Good job — a nice bit of AFV sleuthing. And it all started with a spin on Google Maps!

The tank looks odd with the 3-piece differential cover/transmission cover/whatchamacallit.

How is it that a tank this rare has been there — for years, apparently — and the armor community doesn't know about it? I would have thought that every surviving M4A3E2 would have been fairly well documented.

I guess that's what "The List" is all about . . .




Mark
Back to top
View user's profile
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Hey Joe, Thanks alot!

okay-- they parked, chocked it, and they were done.

See, this is were one look is worth a thousand reports!... I wish I could eyeball it. Besides the 3 pc. trans/differentail housing it has an earlier drive sprocket, it looks like it has a mix of cast and stamped road wheels...


Will you be posting the rest of the pics online? I would like to see those as well please.

SR
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Trevor,

Here is a picture of the monument up close,

Monument

Gun is not fake, is a 75mm but has a cap/plate welded over muzzle.

Gun

Gun mantle shroud

I am no Sherman expert but to me I think the armoured shroud of the mantle makes the gun look shorter than it is. Those 75mm's were kinda stubby to start with.

I took over 200 pictures of just about every surface area, keeping in mind what a model builder would like to see.

Buq-Buq (Mark),

You got to credit Alf for the discovery, it was probably one of those sleepless nights where he was playing with Google Maps when he found her (I do the same for M60's). I just did the leg work, which I enjoy doing and keeps me out of trouble. The big question is, where did She come from, I plan to find out soon.

I guess I can be one of CC's "On call Field Agent/trackers" so to say Laughing

Shawn,
I will post most on line soon. About the transaxle/diff housing. I think Kurt said it all, not original and is a replacement from another tank, doesn't make sense to not have a heavy armored on there when you go through the trouble everywhere else. Although the mating of the two look like it was done to prolong it's service life instead of a lash-up for display.

I don't plan on going back anytime soon but it is not far from where I travel on occasion, so if I missed something and the info is needed, I can get it within reason.

I have to be in Memphis this afternoon.

How many "Jumbo's" are actually out there ???

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Joe - FANTASTIC!!! Excellent work. Although the lugs are missing that E93 on the front left is just as good. Grand Blanc Tank Arsenal (Fisher Body) stamped the sequential build number in this location on their tanks. The letter changed based on the model but this tank is almost certainly the 93rd built, making it S/N 50418, R/N 3083015. The turret serial 203 is very helpful because that's often the only mark distinguishable in photos. (Remember that was key to IDing COBRA KING.)

There were only 254 M4A3E2s built and all but four were shipped to the ETO. I think there are only five or six survivors in the US, less than ten in the world.

And before we forget, kudos to Alf Adams for initially spotting this - Keep looking Alf!!

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

To add a little statistical dribble, here is some stuff I have put together....

1)Portola Valley Ca - SN 50331 - RN 3082929 - Turret# 111
2)Ft Knox KY - SN 50429 - RN 3083026 - Turret# ?
3)Camp Ripley Mn - SN 50455 - RN 3083052 - Turret# ?
4)Camp Ripley Mn - SN ? - RN 3082947 - Turret# 152
5)Carbon Hill Al - SN 50418* -RN 3083015*- Turret# 203
6)Cobra King(Ger) - SN 50487 - RN 3083084 - Turret# 138

Hows that? If any corrections or others existing, I'd be interested in adding them to this list.

Great Job Joe
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Joe-you da man!! Great job making the trip and getting the pics! It sure looks funny with the 3-piece differential cover.

Kurt-thanks for posting the other info about the Jumbos. I'll be contacting you for sure later this summer about a Jumbo project.

_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Alf_Adams
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 13, 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Let me first add my congrats to Joe D for making the trip to check out this tank. Believe me I would have if I lived closer than the several days it would take to get there. The thought did cross my mind though. I'm just very glad to have been a part of identifying this rare beast. Now for a question about it. I remember reading somewhere that all of the Jumbos were made without headlights. I just checked my copy of Hunnicutts Sherman, and the 2 Jumbo pictures on page 321 both show no headlights. In addition I checked some old photos of my own, 1 of the vehicle at the Camp Ripley Museum taken in 1997, and another of the Fort Knox example, taken during a visit to the LST building in 1999. Both show no headlights. Can anyone explain why the Carbon Hill tank has them?

Alf
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Alf, it appears that the surviving M4A3E2s were brought back to the states after the war and remained in service for years afterward. The lights were probably added then just for practicality. If you look in Hunnicutt pages 415 and 417 you'll see two that not only had headlights added but HVSS as well.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Obviously they didn't have them initially, but were perhaps an MWO once in service.

Official photos & drawings have no headlights:





Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Joe, thanks for the memorial pic - I'm always interested in the background to tanks being used as memorials.

Well done to Alf for discovering it, and everyone for contributing info.

Dontos - that's a good list of Jumbos, but don't forget my favourite - the one in Belgium (turret #188). I had the honour of visiting and photographing it while it was still at Hermeton-sur-Meuse at the start of my tank hunting 'career', travelling around Europe by bike in 1982 at the tender age of 17. It had an impact on me - perhaps because it appeared to just have stopped by the roadside waiting for its crew to climb back in. The hatches were open, and you could just climb inside yourself. I've put some pictures and information here (my original pics, and a more recent one from Wikimedia of it now in Brussels):

preservedtanks.com/Loc...&Select=15

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Wow, thanks Trevor

Amazing that it was just sitting along the road lie that.

Although there is no numerical sequence of TN's (Turret #'s) as they were assembled with sequential RN/SN hulls, I'm curious what the actual RN/SN's are for that Jumbo (ie TN # 188).

Its obviously not RN 3083084 (SN 50487) as that is the REAL Cobra King data, located at Vilseck.

Tanks alot
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Carbon Hill AL M4A3E2 Jumbo (Yes it is)

Yeah, back in the old days I would find tanks beside the road or in the hedgerows (the Sherman at Beffe comes to mind) but now they have virtually all been moved and put into museums or made into memorials. Although I can see the sense in that, there was something very special about finding a tank 'in situ' that I think has now been lost.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum