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Neil_Baumgardner

So here we go again...

After Armored Systems Modernization (ASM) of the 1980s/1990s, and Future Combat Systems (FCS) of the 1990s/2000s, we now have...

Ground Combat Vehicle (GCV)... (Thats the name of the new program according to InsideDefense.com, but you need a subscription to access the article).

Neil

www.armytimes.com/news...le_051209/

Army envisions new combat vehicle

By Stephen Manning - The Associated Press
Posted : Tuesday May 12, 2009 15:31:59 EDT

WASHINGTON — The Army will build new combat vehicles better suited for fighting insurgents in places such as Afghanistan, equipment that would replace a fleet likely to be stripped from the service’s massive modernization program under the Pentagon’s 2010 budget plan.

The Army hopes to field the new equipment within seven years, and could begin the process of awarding a new contract this fall, Army Secretary Peter Geren and Gen. George Casey, the service’s chief of staff, told a Senate Appropriations subcommittee today.

The equipment will replace the roughly $87 billion worth of manned vehicles that Defense Secretary Robert Gates wants to remove from the Army’s Future Combat Systems program. That includes armored personnel carriers, reconnaissance vehicles and a giant mobile cannon.

Future Combat Systems plans to combine heavy firepower with high tech gadgetry, such as unmanned sensors that would help soldiers fight more effectively. The roughly $160 billion program has been criticized for using unproven technology, although the Army says some of the equipment is already in use and working well. The program is overseen by Boeing Co. and SAIC Inc. but includes work by most of the nation’s biggest contractors. Much of the vehicle work is done by General Dynamics Corp. and BAE Systems.

Gates wants to focus defense spending on equipment toward current and future combat, which will likely include fights against insurgencies in places like Afghanistan rather than the more conventional wars the military has long planned for.

Gates has said a major reason he decided to cancel the Future Combat Systems vehicles is because they didn’t adequately protect against the roadside bombs that are popular with insurgent fighters.

Casey said the new vehicle would include “lessons learned from the current fight.” He and Geren did not have a cost estimate for the new equipment.

The Army’s $142 billion base budget proposal is $2 billion more than the prior year, but most of the increase comes from the higher costs of fielding a larger force. The Army was able to increase the size of its active duty force to 547,000 this year, a year ahead of schedule, significantly raising personnel costs like pay, benefits and housing.

Spending on weapons would drop, a shift that reflects the Pentagon’s new focus on unconventional combat. The Army wants more money for helicopters that can be used in the rugged terrain of Afghanistan, while spending on heavy equipment like Abrams tanks and Stryker armored personnel carriers would fall.

“The Army must rethink its modernization approach,” said Daniel Inouye, chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee. “Procurement dollars will be tighter as the Army faces high personnel costs.”

JG300-Ascout

"We must not allow, an acronym gap!"

Joe_D

One of the best movies of all time.

I hope no one will ever try to remake it, can't mess with perfection.

JG300-Ascout

- Joe_D

One of the best movies of all time.

I hope no one will ever try to remake it, can't mess with perfection.

Joe,

George C. Scott makes a comment in here that turned out to be prophetic...

I think he (and I hope you) got his wish.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZJDDt4pY_o

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

In the Great American Tradition, preparing for the last war while waiting for the next. Because, you know our adversaries never learn from what happened last time...

A quote from Inouye? Really? With all his defense expertise, and as many times as he has (correctly) predicted future defense needs? (What happened to reporters who actually scrutinized the "credentials" of their sources?)

Didn't we hear this song in the 70's, and again in the 90's?

C

JG300-Ascout

Chuck,

And the tank is dead....but you didn't hear it from me.

I weep for the future...

Joe_D

Tank is not dead,

Maybe in the US mindset, but it lives on in other places that know it's value. In many countries they are brought out just for elections for the masses to enjoy. On other occasions they are rolled out to areas where the loyal subjects need to be reminded of all the wonderful things their great leader(s) have provided for them. The mere sight brings tears of joy to many Rolling Eyes

OK,
But they are still relevant, but money talks, lack of that is. Gotta take care of the present in order to have a future I guess. Besides, We have Plenty laying around that work just fine, just need (trained and proficient) crews.

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

And the tank is dead....but you didn't hear it from me.

What...again? Geez, how many wars do we have to fight with "zombie armor" before we stop declaring the tank dead every time we want to shift money around?

New song. Same as the old song.

C

PS: Joe, be specific. The "US mindset" you speak of is a Washington DC and associated "think tank" phenomena. The Army knows what works, and what's needed, and I haven't heard anyone declaring the tank dead around here. The tank won't die any more than it did in the 90s. We just may have to scrape to get what we need to win the next fight...but that's nothing new, is it?

Neil_Baumgardner

FWIW, I think this new program may reflect an end to the "tank is dead" mentality and may end up being closer to what you would think of as a conventional MBT and family of associated vehicles...

Neil

clausb · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 146

- JG300-Ascout

Chuck,

And the tank is dead....but you didn't hear it from me.

I weep for the future...

Actually, the tank died two hours and 42 minutes after the first Mk. I tank crossed the starting line on the Somme, at which point, after seeing the bumbling, rolling steel boxes struggling forward, Lt.Col. Graham Lloyd Abercrombie CBE, DSO and bar, OBE, MC and bar pronounced the tank dead with the words: "You can rodger me with a prize-winning leek if that thing is ever going to catch on!"

The pronounciation has been repeated countless times since and we still have tanks - though there has been a surprising shortage of leeks and an abundance of sore bottoms......

Wink

cbo

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