Restoring M114A1E1 and need resource info

[wgtactical]

Hello all,
I am restoring the 1965 M114A1E1 and would like to tap the knowledge base of the group. This will be my first resto, as I usually upgrade and modify, but I would like to put this one back as correct as possible. I have probably 75% of the parts and accessories in NOS or really nice condition, but there are some I need help locating:
Interior decals (all of them)
RT 524 radio
R 442 receiver
exterior barrel dimensions for the 20mm cannon ( I have a Vulcan barrel, but it is a bit different from the HS barrel)
complete Vietnam era uniform w/correct patches

I am taking photos or the progress, and when I am about 2/3 complete they will be posted.


Any help is appreciated!
Thanks, Gerald

[Jens_O_Mehner]

Great news, Gerald,

I can already see Roy making frequent trips to Georgia...

As for uniforms, you'd be good to go with the old and trusted OG-105s plus field jacket (M79?), don't use the Viet Nam jungle fatigues, as they were restricted to use in theater (until the Rangers picked them up later) and the M114 only made a very brief appearance there and only in the plain version, IIRC- might have been A1s, but not the A1E1s.

[Doug_Kibbey]

- Jens_O_Mehner

Great news, Gerald,

I can already see Roy making frequent trips to Georgia...

As for uniforms, you'd be good to go with the old and trusted OG-105s plus field jacket (M79?), don't use the Viet Nam jungle fatigues, as they were restricted to use in theater (until the Rangers picked them up later) and the M114 only made a very brief appearance there and only in the plain version, IIRC- might have been A1s, but not the A1E1s.

...and it's highly unlikely that a set would have gotten anywhere near an M114, even in theatre. Everyone loves to wear 'em, but it would not be correct for display on this vehicle. Once I got to 2/11th ACR, I think I only donned either of my camo's a couple of times for dismounted ambush duty, never on the vehicle.

[Jens_O_Mehner]

- Doug_Kibbey

...and it's highly unlikely that a set would have gotten anywhere near an M114, even in theatre. Everyone loves to wear 'em, but it would not be correct for display on this vehicle. Once I got to 2/11th ACR, I think I only donned either of my camo's a couple of times for dismounted ambush duty, never on the vehicle.

Actually I was referring to the plain jungle fatigues with the four-pocket shirt and the thigh pockets on the pants, I wasn't even remotely referring to cammies, as their use was supposedly restricted to Recon, SF and similar types- although I hear some REMF desk-commandos at MAC-V liked to avail themselves of them as well.

I think when the M114 was in theatre, it was still OG-105 shirts with the white nametape and the gold on black US Army tape, probably with the brown Korean war vintage jungle boots with the double buckle- I have to check, I think I have a photo of one of the shortlived Viet Nam M114s somewhere.

[Doug_Kibbey]

- Jens_O_Mehner

- Doug_Kibbey

...and it's highly unlikely that a set would have gotten anywhere near an M114, even in theatre. Everyone loves to wear 'em, but it would not be correct for display on this vehicle. Once I got to 2/11th ACR, I think I only donned either of my camo's a couple of times for dismounted ambush duty, never on the vehicle.

Actually I was referring to the plain jungle fatigues with the four-pocket shirt and the thigh pockets on the pants, I wasn't even remotely referring to cammies, as their use was supposedly restricted to Recon, SF and similar types- although I hear some REMF desk-commandos at MAC-V liked to avail themselves of them as well.

I think when the M114 was in theatre, it was still OG-105 shirts with the white nametape and the gold on black US Army tape, probably with the brown Korean war vintage jungle boots with the double buckle- I have to check, I think I have a photo of one of the shortlived Viet Nam M114s somewhere.

So you were...when I saw the Ranger reference, "camo" lept to mind. I don't know the year M114's were in-country, so don't know what uniform the crews were wearing on them. Are there any pictures at all of these things in service over there?...I've only read about it...photo references would be really helpful!

[Roy_A_Lingle]

Hi Folks!

The few pictures I have seen of M114s in Vietnam, they were all M114A0s. Also it is my understanding that the M114s that did make it to Vietnam were all issued to ARVN units and no US Army unit ever had any.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

[Jens_O_Mehner]

- Roy_A_Lingle

Hi Folks!

The few pictures I have seen of M114s in Vietnam, they were all M114A0s. Also it is my understanding that the M114s that did make it to Vietnam were all issued to ARVN units and no US Army unit ever had any.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

Yep,

you're right, they were part of the assistance package and received ARVN camouflage tout de suite, phased out shortly after they entered service.

Gerald, your best bet would be USAREUR, I'll see if I can come up with some suitable units and photos for you, I think the old and trusted OG-105s are still available through the usual suspects, as well as the appropriate patches.

[MarkHolloway]

"A U.S. Army team conducted staff briefings, driver training classes, maintenance courses, and demonstrations of the M114 for South Vietnamese soldiers. Graduates of these courses then organized and conducted classes in their own units and at the South Vietnamese Armor School. A total of eighty M114 reconnaissance vehicles were used to equip four newly organized armored cavalry reconnaissance squadrons. Others were issued to the Armor School and technical service installations for instructional and logistical purposes.

For a year the Army Concept Team in Vietnam evaluated the combat actions of the armored cavalry reconnaissance squadrons equipped with the M114. Although the squadrons had a few organizational and logistical problems, their critical problem was that the M114 could not move cross-country and had difficulty entering and leaving waterways. Since these defects limited the usefulness of M114's in Vietnam, the armored reconnaissance vehicles were replaced by M113's. Most Vietnamese reconnaissance squadrons. began transition training with the M113 in April and finished by November 1964. Unfortunately for the service, the M114's lackluster Vietnam performance was ignored by U.S. Army decision makers and the vehicle with all its inadequacies became standard issue for the Army everywhere but in Vietnam. It was not until 1973 that General Abrams, then the U.S. Army Chief of Staff, branded the vehicle a failure and ordered it retired from the Army."

Source: www.army.mil/cmh/books...apter2.htm

[tanker2010]

"It was not until 1973 that General Abrams, then the U.S. Army Chief of Staff, branded the vehicle a failure and ordered it retired from the Army."

Guess it took awhile for the word to get out. We still had them in Germany, in Aug. of `76, when I first got there. I was in CSC 2/15INF 3ID in Wildeflecken. Our Recon Plt. had them till Jan of `77, when they converted to M113A1's.

[Roy_A_Lingle]

Hi Tanker2010! Hi Folks!

- tanker2010

"It was not until 1973 that General Abrams, then the U.S. Army Chief of Staff, branded the vehicle a failure and ordered it retired from the Army."

Guess it took awhile for the word to get out. We still had them in Germany, in Aug. of `76, when I first got there. I was in CSC 2/15INF 3ID in Wildeflecken. Our Recon Plt. had them till Jan of `77, when they converted to M113A1's.

I was with CSC 1/30 Inf 3ID at Schweinfurt. It was around Jan of 1977 when the two infantry and two armored battalions received M113A1s there.

The reason it took so long after branding it a failure, was He went to Congress and requested special funding to buy M113s to replace all the M114s. The funding and the building of new vehicles or overhauling of old vehicles took time. I know the new M113A1s the 1/30 received were rebuilded vehicles that had marks of being in Vietnam on them.

As for ordering it to be retired from the Army, I find that hard to buy sense a replacement had to be bought before the M114s could be replaced. While the M3 CFV had been selected to replace the XM800T, it would still be a number of years before it would start reaching the field.

Even then, when I arrived at Ft. Bliss in summer of 1978, the 3rd ACR was still using M114A2s which didn't get turned in until late 1979, early 1980.

My 2 cents and some of my old history.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

[tanker2010]

No kidding, Schweinfurt huh? We may have crossed paths at the Snackbar or PX, Roy. I got transfered to 2/39FA there at Ledward in early July of `78. Became one of the first 13F's in the Army. Our Bn. Co. was somewhat of a loon named LTC. Creighton Abrams Jr.

[Roy_A_Lingle]

Hi Tanker2010! Hi Folks!

- tanker2010

No kidding, Schweinfurt huh? We may have crossed paths at the Snackbar or PX, Roy. I got transfered to 2/39FA there at Ledward in early July of `78. Became one of the first 13F's in the Army. Our Bn. Co. was somewhat of a loon named LTC. Creighton Abrams Jr.

Wild! Very possible!

2/39FA? When 1/30 Inf went to the field, our FO came for the other unit, the 1/10th FA.

Doug and me were in G Troop at the same time and we didn't met until we started talking about the same events on this DG!

Great to met you!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

[wgtactical]

I had forgot about this thread, and only recently re-found it So here's the update.
www.m2hb.net/m2phpBB/v...php?t=2284