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Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:37 am
Post subject: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

Who has seen the SP-70 prototype at Saumur in 2004?

I visited the Saumur reserves buildings 2 weeks ago and it may be that I have seen the SP-70 hull. However, I didn't recognized it as an SP-70 during the visit (it looked more like an HS-30 for me, but I have no knowledge of such vehicle), and I can't remember what it looked like exactly (we visited in a hurry). We were not allowed to take any picture. That's why I need a picture of this vehicle when it was seen "outside the bossut hall" in 2004.

thanks

P-O

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

P-O,
Isnt there a picture linked in the France AFV register?

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

P-O, here's the screen capture from a 1990s video by our own Dennis Trowbridge:



video.google.co.uk/vid...p;hl=en-GB (at about the 1:48 mark)

Neil
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

- Neil_Baumgardner
P-O,
Isnt there a picture linked in the France AFV register?

Neil


Neil,

no, that's why I am asking. I have never seen any picture of that vehicle since it is listed in the register.. anyway the big hull that I have seen in the reserves and which may be the SP-70 had no turret, I'm not even sure it was indeed the SP-70... I'll try to check this.

Note that Trevor Larkum only lists 2 existing vehicles :

http://www.preservedtanks.com/Types.aspx?TypeCategoryId=430&Select=1

I wonder if the one seen at Saumur is a third one or the one from Munster...?

P-O

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:41 am
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

P-O,
The picture above is from Saumur.

Neil
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

P-O, there were at least 5 prototypes made, perhaps as many as 15, so I would say you've found a third example. I also came across it via Google, searching using the German designation PzH 70:



www.panzerbaer.de/type...pard_1.htm

I'd say that's outside Saumur.

I also happened to come across this, without any info, and I'm wondering if it might be a fourth example - I don't recognise the location:


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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

I have been prompted to return to this subject, and to update the entries on PreservedTanks.com.

- the_shadock

Note that Trevor Larkum only lists 2 existing vehicles :

http://www.preservedtanks.com/Types.aspx?TypeCategoryId=430&Select=1

P-O


Soon after our discussions in this thread I added a new entry with a photograph for the SP-70 at Shrivenham bringing the total to 3 (with thanks to Richard Stickland):

UID 1033: Shrivenham SP-70


In the last week I have been doing additional research and made the following updates:

1) Updated the entry and added a more recent photo for the Woolwich example (with thanks to John Harris):

UID 325: Woolwich SP-70 (Firepower museum, previously at Rotunda)


2) Added a new entry for a Bovington SP-70, having found a Bovington magazine (Tracklink) that lists it in storage:

UID 1491: Bovington SP-70

I believe the photo I linked to above is this vehicle so I have contacted the author to try and find out more.


3) Massimo sent me information and photo's some time ago about the Cecchignola museum, including mention of an SP-70 (though unfortunately without a photo). This has prompted me to put Cecchignola online (more on that in the Preserved Tanks in Italy thread). The entry includes some links to pictures of it.

UID 1515: Cecchignola SP-70


4) As per the discussion in this thread I have added an entry for the example at Saumur (with thanks to Dennis for the picture). The entry includes links to the video and the photo I posted above.

UID 1516: Saumur SP-70


That brings the total to six. If anyone can help with additional information or pictures I'd love to hear from you.

Preserved SP-70s

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TimRoyall
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

I've got a copy of the Cold Environmental Trials report from Nov 84 to Feb 85 for what is described on the cover as the: Panzerhaubitze 155-1 (PzH 155-1); Semovente 155mm (SP70); 155mm Self Propelled Howitzer (SP70).

The trial took place in Hjerkinn, Norway and involved two prototypes referred to as PT09 and PT10. A list of other vehicles used in the trial are, 4 x LWB winterised Landrovers, 2 x Bedford 4 Ton Cargo, 2 x BV202, A Centurion ARV and and M578 ARV.

Tim,
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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

There's a couple of photos of one on this website m136.de/panzerhaubitze-2000 that looks like a museum piece.
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jtrowbridge5
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

These photos were taken by myself in early 2000 at Bovington
Dennis


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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

- TimRoyall
I've got a copy of the Cold Environmental Trials report from Nov 84 to Feb 85 for what is described on the cover as the: Panzerhaubitze 155-1 (PzH 155-1); Semovente 155mm (SP70); 155mm Self Propelled Howitzer (SP70).

The trial took place in Hjerkinn, Norway and involved two prototypes referred to as PT09 and PT10. A list of other vehicles used in the trial are, 4 x LWB winterised Landrovers, 2 x Bedford 4 Ton Cargo, 2 x BV202, A Centurion ARV and and M578 ARV.

Tim,


Tim - is there any useful info in there that would identify individual vehicles, e.g. photos, serial or registration numbers, etc?

I didn't now about the other names for it - Googling for Panzerhaubitze 155-1 has thrown up a page with more pictures of the Cecchignola example so I've added the link to its page:

kr.blog.yahoo.com/shin...erce/17625


- Pzkpfw-e
There's a couple of photos of one on this website m136.de/panzerhaubitze-2000 that looks like a museum piece.
...


The PzH 2000 replaced the SP-70 and I'd guess it's too soon for examples to appear in museums - I will keep a look out though.


- jtrowbridge5
These photos were taken by myself in early 2000 at Bovington
Dennis
....


Dennis, would it be alright to use your photos on PreservedTanks.com?

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jtrowbridge5
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

Trevor.of course its ok, glad to help at anytime
Dennis
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

I have been doing some research at German sites and found the following:

- 1977 there where 5 prototype PzH 70 type A build
- 1984 there where 7 prototype PzH 70 type B build

the first serie was build build using a modified Leopad 1 chassis, the later serie was build using a modified Leopard 2 chassis

concerning the "The PzH 2000 replaced the SP-70 and I'd guess it's too soon for examples to appear in museums""
This tracked howitzer has never been beyond prototype stage and the main components like the 155mm gun and the Leopard chassis are already showing in some museum
So I don't think it is to early to show these vehicle's in museums

At the Korean site, with picture's of the vehicle there is also a type C listed, however I can not find any reference about this version

Michel

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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:47 am
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

- Michel_Krauss
concerning the "The PzH 2000 replaced the SP-70 and I'd guess it's too soon for examples to appear in museums""
This tracked howitzer has never been beyond prototype stage and the main components like the 155mm gun and the Leopard chassis are already showing in some museum
So I don't think it is to early to show these vehicle's in museums


Are you sure you are talking about the same vehicle? It's in active service in four different countries and it has seen action in Afghanistan:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...bitze_2000

Massimo
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:04 am
Post subject: Re: Who has seen the SP-70 proto at Saumur in 2004?

- Massimo_Foti
Are you sure you are talking about the same vehicle? It's in active service in four different countries and it has seen action in Afghanistan:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...bitze_2000

Massimo


I'm refering to the PzH 70, you refer to the PzH 2000 Mr. Green

Concerning the PzH 2000 still being used, including Afghanistan, I know
The Dutch army used them over there, they where very populair for fire support
Also among the other countries who requested fire support from the Dutch artillery

Michel

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