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binder001 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 363

OK, I'm a Sherman nut and don't follow the panzers very closely. What are the basic differences between a Hetzer and a G13? Were the G13s all WW2 production or are they post war?

Gary B.

Massimo_Foti

If a Hetzer is still carrying all its Swiss modifications, then it is a G-13, if it has been back dated to its original configuration, it is once again a Hetzer.

Maybe in this case it becomes an ST-1? Laughing

If a Sherman is modified or rebuilt after the war

While I see your point, G-13s were build after the war, not modified or rebuilt, and they were never called "Hetzer".
You may consider this mostly a matter of semantic and think it's irrelevant, and I not necessarily disagree with you, but it's a somewhat different case than a rebuild Sherman.

Massimo

PS I guess now we could start debating how many G-13's parts came from existing WW II stocks, or were build from scratch Shocked

Garry_Redmon

The link in Don's post is gone. Here is the new link. www.armorfortheages.co...taPage.htm

Garry

Michel_Krauss

PS I guess now we could start debating how many G-13's parts came from existing WW II stocks, or were build from scratch

I will start the show Twisted Evil

The post WW2 G13 had an muzzle brake fitted, the original WW2 Hetzer did not have an muzzle brake

So every thing with an muzzle brake or an threaded barrel end is in fact an G13

Michel

JimWeb

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...

G13 & Hetzer have different crew layouts as well...

Massimo_Foti

G-13 mounted StuK 40 guns instead of Pak 39.

Then, most likely, those StuK 40 guns came from existing stocks, dating back to WW II. So the "post-war" argument is, again, somewhat blurry.

Massimo

vmmv1

When i restored our Hetzer I was able to find no proof of Hetzers being built after WW2, Battle damaged and abandoned vehicles were brought back to the factory to be repaired, the hulls on the assembly line were finished, but new production vehicles??? when restoring our hetzer back to original, i found all the original mounting points for everything the Swiss removed, including the mounting points for the STG 44's in the interior, Waffen marks all over the vehicle, original tan color on the hull. I agree this is a blurry debate.

Michel_Krauss

G-13 mounted StuK 40 guns instead of Pak 39.

Then, most likely, those StuK 40 guns came from existing stocks, dating back to WW II. So the "post-war" argument is, again, somewhat blurry.

Massimo

This point is actually very clear, being post-WW2
During WW2 all German Hetzer where equipt with PaK 39 canon and this barrel did not have the option to mount an muzzel brake

The feature of the muzzle brake came from the StuK 40 that was intended to be used on the StuG III

This also means that

So every thing with an muzzle brake or an threaded barrel end is in fact an G13

is still true

Michel

Michel_Krauss

Jim,

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...

that is not completly true

The Swiss army had 158 G-13 of which 86 where modified to an Saurer-Arbon 12 Cyl Dieselengine with Allison gearbox between 1952 and 1954
These 86 rebuilds became the G-14's

When production of the G-13 ended in 1950 there where not enough spare parts left

Info from the German site panzerbaer.de

However this also means that the one at the Overloon Museum is in fact an G-14, because I have picture's of the Sauer Diesel engine

Michel

JimWeb

- Michel_Krauss

Jim,

Most 'G13' are actually G14 with the diesel engine anyway. Its just that everyone has got too lazy to bother to use the correct designation so they remain G13...

that is not completly true

The Swiss army had 158 G-13 of which 86 where modified to an Saurer-Arbon 12 Cyl Dieselengine with Allison gearbox between 1952 and 1954
These 86 rebuilds became the G-14's

When production of the G-13 ended in 1950 there where not enough spare parts left

Info from the German site panzerbaer.de

However this also means that the one at the Overloon Museum is in fact an G-14, because I have picture's of the Sauer Diesel engine

Michel

I was, of course, referring to those extant today... There are hardly any G13 around

Massimo_Foti

Full's Museum has both a G-13 and a G-14. Same for Fort Pré-Giroud. Thun has one G-13 in static display and at least one G-13 among the runners.

Massimo

Michel_Krauss

Based on the numbers there is an 46% change that vehicle will be an G-13 and 54% change that it is an G-14

About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation

It could have been used non-official to make an difference between the 2 type's

The military is good at doing that Wink

Let's get back to topic.
I found an site of the Swiss National Militia Museum with on short history of the G-13 / G-14
When I know what they are telling I will make an new post

It has to do what was bought when, which years, WW2 production or new, etc

Michel

Massimo_Foti

About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation

The G-14 designation is hardly ever used even in swiss literature. But I am unable to deny or confirm if it was used by the swiss army at some point

Massimo

JimWeb

- Massimo_Foti

About this designation on G-13 and G-14, according some German speaking site's it is not certain that this was an official designation

The G-14 designation is hardly ever used even in swiss literature. But I am unable to deny or confirm if it was used by the swiss army at some point

Massimo

It appears on the new G14 manuals (rare) but not on the G13 manuals amended to cover the G14.

Massimo_Foti

I am not surprised. It's not unlike the Pz 39/LTL-H, half of then use an original gasoline engine, the other half a diesel engine, and the name remained the same

Massimo

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