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L.Delsing · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 960

It seems that the vehicles of the Axvall museum are moved into storage at an army base in/near Strängnäs pending the completion of the new museum. For pictures see:

www.pansarmuseet.se/

Rikard_Hufschmied · Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

True, the Armour Museum in Axvall is now closed and all vehicles have been moved to new premises at the old P10 (disbanded in 2005) Armour Barracks in Strängnäs. The thought is very much the same as in the US, to consolidate all State vehicle collections to one facility (the move is a part of the Swedish Military Heritage project) See this link: Swedish Military Heritage Homepage . The new facility goes under the name Arsenalen (The Arsenal) and is under construction as I write. See this link: The Arsenal Homepage

A nice picture from the move: A Swedish M4A4 Sherman VC is reunited with its 1947 Commander Sten Korch at the far right.

JimWeb · Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

Not wanting to pop anyones bubble but isn't that an ijssellinie turret on that Sherman?

the_shadock · Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

there is a very interesting page showing how the Lesany Tank Museum, near Prague in CZ, is restoring a rare AH-IV-S, a.k.a Strv m/37 :

http://www.arsenalen.se/renov37mhi.aspx#dec2008

the last pictures were added in January 2010

P-O

bsmart · Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

- JimWeb

Not wanting to pop anyones bubble but isn't that an ijssellinie turret on that Sherman?

I'm not to proud to ask about a Sherman detail I don't know about.

What is an ijssellinie turret? I will say that the cheek armor in front of the gunner position look 'different' and the mantlet looks more like the one on the 105mm Howitzer version but it could just be the angle

the_shadock · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

- bsmart

What is an ijssellinie turret?

that's a turret that was installed on the IJssel linie ( a kind of Maginot line built in Netherlands between 1950 and 1955):

JimWeb · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

THe thing that attracted my eye was the welded up Co-ax mg port. I am almost sure I saw something similar on a couple of of those turrets about 15 years ago..

bsmart · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

- the_shadock

- bsmart

What is an ijssellinie turret?

that's a turret that was installed on the IJssel linie ( a kind of Maginot line built in Netherlands between 1950 and 1955):

Is the second picture a Ram turret?

JimWeb · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

- bsmart

Is the second picture a Ram turret?

Yes - sat on top of a RAM tank as well albeit a little stripped...

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

Was there typically any "alternative" escape routes from these apart from the visible hatches?

Being overrun in one of these while rendered inoperable would be most unenviable.

Joe_D · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

The whole concept of static defense just don't sit right with me, especially when your weapon doesn't have a significant range improvement over your adversary.

Much rather fight it out in a tank using the local terrain. That way I can pop a few rounds, displace to another position, pop some more, move, and so on. Never giving them a chance to fix me. Stay too long in one place and a volley of 125mm will get you the next time you expose yourself to engage. Things get too hot displace to the next line of defense, hoping you don't get whacked by your own when doing the passage of lines. Usually you get overrun but if you take out enough (5-8 depending on where you were), you've done your job.

Memories of a Cold War Tanker training for the Soviet or North Korean Horde Wink

.

JimWeb · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

The point of these things (IMHO) is that they use up useful obsolete tank turrets that you can stick some 50 year old reservist in that actually served on the tank version with minimal training. Put them in a nice defilade position and they can be quite effective - not so sure about the wide open dutch countryside though....

While a few countries are busy removing/downgrading them the concept isn't entirely dead and is still used in some countries. Some of Georgia's recent purchases tend to give one the impression that they are busy building them even today.

JimWeb · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

- Doug_Kibbey

Was there typically any "alternative" escape routes from these apart from the visible hatches?

Being overrun in one of these while rendered inoperable would be most unenviable.

The usual 'escape route' was a box of smoke grenades I think Smile

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Axvall armour museum

Makes sense. A trail of frags as a "contact breaker" might figure well into the plans. Laughing

L.Delsing · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 960

An area of 3-15 km width would be inudated in front of the turrets and other parts of the IJssellinie. From the early sixties it was not used in the NATO defence strategy anymore, although the systems (locks, dams etc)were maintained for sometime.

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