±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 495
Total: 495
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Downloads
04: Home
05: Downloads
06: Member Screenshots
07: Home
08: Member Screenshots
09: Home
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Downloads
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Home
25: Home
26: Home
27: Home
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Member Screenshots
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: News Archive
36: Statistics
37: Photo Gallery
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Member Screenshots
42: Photo Gallery
43: Member Screenshots
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Home
52: Home
53: Photo Gallery
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Home
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Downloads
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Downloads
68: News
69: Home
70: Photo Gallery
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Home
79: Home
80: Home
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Home
87: Home
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Member Screenshots
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Home
96: Member Screenshots
97: Home
98: Member Screenshots
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Downloads
107: Home
108: Downloads
109: Home
110: News
111: Member Screenshots
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Member Screenshots
118: Your Account
119: Home
120: Home
121: Home
122: Home
123: Home
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Home
133: Member Screenshots
134: Home
135: Home
136: Downloads
137: Home
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Member Screenshots
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Home
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Member Screenshots
148: Member Screenshots
149: Home
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Downloads
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Home
161: Home
162: Home
163: Home
164: News
165: Member Screenshots
166: Home
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Downloads
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Statistics
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Home
176: Home
177: Home
178: Member Screenshots
179: Member Screenshots
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Home
184: Downloads
185: Home
186: Home
187: Home
188: Your Account
189: Member Screenshots
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Member Screenshots
195: Member Screenshots
196: Home
197: Home
198: Home
199: Statistics
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Photo Gallery
204: Home
205: Downloads
206: News
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Downloads
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Home
216: News
217: Downloads
218: Downloads
219: Home
220: Home
221: Home
222: Home
223: Home
224: Home
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Member Screenshots
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Home
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: News Archive
239: Home
240: Home
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Home
245: Photo Gallery
246: Member Screenshots
247: Home
248: Statistics
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Home
252: Home
253: Home
254: Home
255: Home
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Downloads
260: Home
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Downloads
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Member Screenshots
269: Member Screenshots
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Downloads
278: Home
279: Photo Gallery
280: Statistics
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Member Screenshots
284: Photo Gallery
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Downloads
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Home
296: Photo Gallery
297: Home
298: Home
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Member Screenshots
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Member Screenshots
308: Community Forums
309: Home
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Home
313: Home
314: Member Screenshots
315: Member Screenshots
316: Statistics
317: Statistics
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Member Screenshots
321: Community Forums
322: Member Screenshots
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Photo Gallery
326: Downloads
327: Home
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Home
340: Member Screenshots
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: Home
345: Photo Gallery
346: News Archive
347: Home
348: Statistics
349: Statistics
350: Home
351: Home
352: Home
353: Home
354: Home
355: Member Screenshots
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Downloads
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Home
362: Supporters
363: Home
364: Home
365: Downloads
366: Member Screenshots
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Photo Gallery
370: Home
371: Home
372: Downloads
373: Community Forums
374: Statistics
375: Photo Gallery
376: Member Screenshots
377: Member Screenshots
378: Member Screenshots
379: Home
380: Home
381: Your Account
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Your Account
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Member Screenshots
391: Your Account
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Member Screenshots
401: Home
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Statistics
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Member Screenshots
408: Downloads
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Home
413: Downloads
414: Home
415: Photo Gallery
416: Member Screenshots
417: Statistics
418: Home
419: Home
420: Downloads
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Member Screenshots
425: Downloads
426: Community Forums
427: Member Screenshots
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Photo Gallery
433: Downloads
434: Photo Gallery
435: Home
436: Home
437: Community Forums
438: Member Screenshots
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Member Screenshots
444: Member Screenshots
445: Home
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: Downloads
450: Photo Gallery
451: Photo Gallery
452: Home
453: Home
454: News Archive
455: Home
456: Statistics
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Member Screenshots
463: Home
464: Home
465: Photo Gallery
466: Photo Gallery
467: Photo Gallery
468: Downloads
469: Home
470: Statistics
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Home
474: Home
475: Home
476: Photo Gallery
477: News Archive
478: Community Forums
479: Statistics
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Photo Gallery
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: News Archive
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Photo Gallery
492: Member Screenshots
493: Home
494: Home
495: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Sherman Firefly
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

Hi folks,

well I think that the TD may not have been blocking the introduction of an more powerfull gun, officially
However I also think they where not to happy with the idea and mostlikly when asked they wouldn't have said that it would be an good option
From what I know about the US TD branch, at the beginning of WW2 they where not even keep on putting there AT gun on track's
Only after complaints of the frontline that the AT guns good not keep pace with the rest of the army, they started shift to SP versions

- bsmart
And yes I like discussions like this. We used to have them more often , maybe they will come back


Let's hope so

Some-one else has something to discuss ?
I'm open to all points concerning AFV's, except one thing: paint colors


About mixing them up
After the war the Dutch army also used the 3 different gun sizes, however I dont know how these tanks where mixed together

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

- Michel_Krauss
Hi folks,

....I'm open to all points concerning AFV's, except one thing: paint colors

Michel


I think you're going to fit right in here. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:22 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

Hi,

For all of the 'old' AFV News site alumnus, we had a fairly long discussion about this on 'ye olde borde'. That discussion was mainly focused on the delays in fielding the 90mm guns, but I recall a good deal of good information regarding the differences between the 17 pdr and the 76mm.

There was some fairly well reasoned and documented arguments that involved the poor performance (nonavailability?) of the 17 pdr HE rounds. The War Department placed a good deal of importance on the availability of the HE rounds, partly because of lingering traces of doctrine emphasizing the infantry-support aspects of armor tactics. I seem to recall some knowledgeable assertions that British industry simply couldn't supply adequate numbers of the 17 pdr guns and ammunition without shorting their own forces. Apparently the 76mm gun was actually in development well before it was deemed necessary for installation in Sherman tanks, and it was relatively simple to ramp production up and supply conversion kits that would exactly match the existing chassis.

I believe that "shatter gap" played a role, somehow, in ways that I'm apparently too thick to grasp. At least I THINK that is what he was trying to say... Shocked Rolling Eyes Smile

I'm not sure if any of that was archived, but I though it was interesting that the discussion isn't really new for some of us! Welcome Wink

Chuck

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JWB2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:49 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

Here is a tech paper abstract on shatter gap.
oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&...=ADA284904

If you more just Google. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:45 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

C. Sherman brings up memories of the old discussions (We all looked at the elephant from slightly different angles)

I believe that some of the folks that complain about the choices made for equiping American forces in WWII minimize the effort and time required in making a change. The Northwest European campaign was actually fairly short (only 11 months from D-Day to V-E day) and equipment being used had been produced in some case 2 years before and stockpiles built up in preperation for the high consumption rates of an active campaign. At the same time the priorities of this campaign were only a few of the many competing priorities of a global war. Once the Army decided where it's priorities were for 75mm, 76mm, 90mm, etc they had to present those priorities to 'War Production Boards' that had similar information from the Navy, Air Force, Industrial Production, Allied Procurement. The allocation of 'machine shop' resources had to balance out the various needs. Shutting down a plant to convert it from 'outmoded' 3" AA guns to 76mm or 17pdr guns would probably be fought by the Navy which wanted more medium AA guns for the Pacific Fleet, Allied Procurement that would rather have production continue because the 3" was acceptable to the Chinese who were just starting to recieve shipments after the higher priority needs had been met and the Industrial Production folks who want to use the machine tools to make more machine tools so they can give you twice as many 76mm in six months once they build the machines to equip two more factories.

Then the 'doctrine' arguments come in to play. The well known ones (because it is generally accepted it was flawed) like TDs v Tanks as well as lessor thought of ones that decided that tanks would probably spend more time in infantry support than in killing other tanks (Yes I know the two are related but everything is related eventually) If you accept the need to equip the tanks to handle multiple tasks like infantry support you have to make a doctrinal decision on how to balance the roles. The U.S. Army settled on a 'jack of all trades' doctrine that set a broad doctrine that the main armament had to do an adequate job of handling H.E. type (bursting) targets as well as penetrating (Tank Killing) targets. The British leaned much further towards the main tank gun as being a penetrating weapon. In the pre and early war years it lead to two versions of each tank. One (the primary production model) had a higher velocity wepon that fired solid shot to penetrate. The other (in much lower production and deployment) was equiped with a howitzer that fired smoke and H.E. rounds. In Brazen Chariots robert Crisp laments the fact they did not have a good weapon to counter their nemesis the AT gun. Even after the British moved to the larger guns (6pdr and 75mm) they retained the diachotomy of penetrating and bursting weapons. While the American AP rounds were designed with a bursting charge in them rounds supplied to the British were not filled with the HE filler.

The U.S. recognized the need for a multipurpose weapon and early on settled on the medium velocity 75mm. At the time it had good penetration and good bursting capability. As opposing tanks got thicker skins the penetraing capability quickly went down to 'barely adequate' While a partial solution was in the pipeline with the 76mm I think they correctly saw the need for a balanced weapon that continued to provide a good bursting capability. How much evaluation went into deciding which would be used the most I don't know but I think they got the balance right. More use was actually made of the tank gun as a bursting (i.e. H.E. delivery) weapon than as a tank killing weapon. I think that if they had had the foresight to step up to a 90mm class weapon earlier we wouldn't even be having this discussion but I don't think that spending a lot of effort in adapting a foreign specialist weapon would have been the right way to go.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

I feel I have just opened up a time warp to the old pre spam bot site Laughing

It's nice to have a discussion like this happening again. I learn quite a bit from these.

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

Let's start up the fire an little higher Twisted Evil

After the US invasion of Northern Africa, operation Torch 1942-11, it was already clear that the Sherman lacked behind in fire power
However in 1944-06 there was little to no change in this

In the meantime:
- The German army switched from the 75mm on the Pz IV to the even more deadly 75mm on the Pz 5
- The Russian army had changed from the T34/76 to the T34/85
- The British army had changed from Crusaders to Churchill. I know they classified their tanks different, however they tried to do something

So why was it clear to al nations to upgrade their weapons to an more powerful type of weapon
And the US did not, untill the last month of the war??

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

- Michel_Krauss


So why was it clear to al nations to upgrade their weapons to an more powerful type of weapon
And the US did not, untill the last month of the war??

Michel


The short answer is logistics (and inertia in the system). The domestic war machine production lines were humming along nicely, the outcome of the conflict was not really in question, and there were constraints to what could be changed in a period of time that would affect the outcome when what was already being done was working (looking at the overall). New guns, bigger tanks (M26) all incur delays and other complications (production, shipping, support) when the numbers were working for the allies with what they had.

Fair to the crews? Probably not.
Effective in the end result? Outcome speaks for itself.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

- Doug_Kibbey
The short answer is logistics (and inertia in the system). The domestic war machine production lines were humming along nicely, the outcome of the conflict was not really in question, and there were constraints to what could be changed in a period of time that would affect the outcome when what was already being done was working (looking at the overall). New guns, bigger tanks (M26) all incur delays and other complications (production, shipping, support) when the numbers were working for the allies with what they had


That's an interresting point of view, logistic's
However development on the Sherman follow-up, being the M26, already started beginning 1942
And this development was dropped, later on in 1942, to an absolute minimum effort because command decided that the Sheman was still adéquat
At that periode of time the outcome of the war was not decided
An positive outcome became possible in 1943

Command already knew in 1942 that the Sherman was no match for the Tiger 1 or the long barreled 75mm Pz IV
They had that experienced in Africa and the other allies (being UK and Russia) told them that Germany was developing new weapons

The logistic point of shipping is also interresting
Why was it possible to ship complete steam locomtives, however not an heavier tank?

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

- Michel_Krauss


That's an interresting point of view, logistic's
However development on the Sherman follow-up, being the M26, already started beginning 1942
And this development was dropped, later on in 1942, to an absolute minimum effort because command decided that the Sheman was still adéquat
At that periode of time the outcome of the war was not decided
An positive outcome became possible in 1943

Command already knew in 1942 that the Sherman was no match for the Tiger 1 or the long barreled 75mm Pz IV
They had that experienced in Africa and the other allies (being UK and Russia) told them that Germany was developing new weapons

The logistic point of shipping is also interresting
Why was it possible to ship complete steam locomtives, however not an heavier tank?

Michel


1. Development is not production, it takes quite a while to convert prototype models and adapt existing lines to mass production....and assumes the product is even ready. The M26 wasn't and there were a number of unsatisfactory reports coming out of the evaluations board that revealed deficiencies that needed correction. Short version, as presented in the '42-'43 timeframe, the vehicle was unacceptable.

2. Logistics is more than altering load plans on transport ships. It's having a pool of replacement parts, trained crews, adequate supplies of ammo, and infrastructure to support transport on the other side of the pond. Engineers, for example, objected mightily to the weight and width of the M26 as it exceeded the capacity of the bridging that was correctly foreseen as necessary for European operations. Parking places on Liberty Ships are perhaps not the least of the problems, but they certainly don't end there.

Could things have been done better or more expediently? Sure.
Was the solution set adequate to the task at hand? Apparently so.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

Although the US Army had known of the Tiger and Panther in 1942-1943, they were rarely encountered and presumed to be heavy tanks, not the main weapons of the panzer divisions. While a difficult foe, it was thought that the Germans would continue to field the Pz IV as their main weapon. This was the tank we expected to fight. (And I'm not certain that the Pz IV *wasn't* the tank most commonly seen in the ETO after all.) The realization that there was something bigger out there *that we would have to fight regularly* didn't come until June/July 1944.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:18 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

I'll chime in here

1) "After the US invasion of Northern Africa, operation Torch 1942-11, it was already clear that the Sherman lacked behind in fire power
However in 1944-06 there was little to no change in this"

In Nov 42 The Sherman was 'state of the art' In fact deliveries were in short supply because of the ones that were rushed to 8th Army in Egypt ( A long trip all the way around Africa) The first shipment was sunk and had to be replaced at the last minute. The Convoy left the east coast US at the end of July and arrived in Egypt Sept 2.
www.usmm.org/seatraintexas.html

(This was one of two very special ships that was designed to haul heavy rail equipment and perfect for hauling tanks. 70 ton crains and high clearance heavy duty decks)

With all this being sent to the British the Americans in TORCH had to keep their M3 Lees. Somewhere else said that in '42 they should have known that the Sherman was inferior to the Tiger. I think the Tiger didn't debut until Mid 43 (about the same time as the Panther) So until they came out in Mid 43 (not 42) There was no direct proof that the Sherman was outclassed.. Yes it could be expected and work was being done on larger tanks but there was no direct evidence.

So IF at the immediate appearance of the Tiger in North Africa (May 43?) a rush effort was started to modify a Sherman with a larger gun there would be a year to develop, test, build train and deploy the new version to have it ready for D-Day. This MAY have been possible if everyone would have agreed it was neccesary but with the end user not seeing it as a major emergency it didn't get the priority it would have needed. As it was the 76mm version went into production in Feb '44 and was starting to appear in units at D-Day. That was a pretty good job

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:31 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

I usually don't get into these type discussions since my Sherman knowledge is lacking.

However, I do think that there is one 'exception'. Case in point is the M4A3E2. The earliest 'mention' to the idea is Feb 44, limited production in May/June/July 44, Shipment beginning in Sept 44, and in the hands of the Troops beginning in Sept 44. Now thats fast, even by todays standards......

BUT doesn't really prove anything except there is always one exception to any case......

I'll shut up & try to learn somemore from this kniowledgable panel. A very deep discussion that is an excellent read.

Thanks
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:48 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

But Don,

It actually proves the opposite,

Specialty vehicle made specifically for ETO and then dropped like a hot potato when the war ended. The one advantage was she did use the 75mm and later 76mm gun so ammo wouldn't be an issue like the 17pdr.

I'll shut up & try to learn somemore from this kniowledgable panel


I feel the same way on this one but I don't use the "Bugs Bunny" vernacular
kniowledgable
Laughing

Eagerly awaiting more on this subject

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman Firefly

Joe

Actually I was sorta leaning to the 'concept to combat' in general. I don't know of any other Armored Vehicle that bridged that gap so quickly,....EVER!

But since the M4A3E2 was only a modified M4A3, able to use onhand items or supplies there really wasn't any changes to the 'LOG trail'. Although it did present some transportation issues.

Of course with the whole Sherman issue (or more properly Medium tank...), I see it as a 'good enough' solution and became more of a Mass production issue of 'Quantity over Quality'. (Not implying that it wasn't a well built machine, but definitely not the 'Wunder Waffe' that the German Heavy Tanks was termed)

Just my 2 cents
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 5
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum