±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 326
Total: 326
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: News Archive
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Downloads
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Member Screenshots
23: Your Account
24: Member Screenshots
25: Home
26: Home
27: Photo Gallery
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Member Screenshots
32: News Archive
33: Community Forums
34: News Archive
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Member Screenshots
39: Downloads
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Your Account
48: Statistics
49: Home
50: Downloads
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: News Archive
55: Home
56: Home
57: News Archive
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Member Screenshots
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Photo Gallery
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Home
71: Downloads
72: Community Forums
73: Member Screenshots
74: Community Forums
75: Downloads
76: Home
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: News Archive
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Downloads
84: Community Forums
85: News Archive
86: News
87: Member Screenshots
88: Community Forums
89: Member Screenshots
90: Home
91: Home
92: Community Forums
93: News
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Your Account
99: Member Screenshots
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Member Screenshots
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: News Archive
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Member Screenshots
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Member Screenshots
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: News
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Member Screenshots
134: Member Screenshots
135: Home
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Member Screenshots
139: Community Forums
140: Downloads
141: Member Screenshots
142: Photo Gallery
143: Home
144: Member Screenshots
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Member Screenshots
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Home
155: Member Screenshots
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Member Screenshots
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Member Screenshots
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Member Screenshots
180: Your Account
181: Community Forums
182: Member Screenshots
183: Downloads
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Photo Gallery
188: News Archive
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Downloads
193: News Archive
194: Downloads
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Downloads
198: Home
199: News Archive
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Member Screenshots
205: Member Screenshots
206: Community Forums
207: Member Screenshots
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Member Screenshots
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Home
218: Downloads
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Downloads
228: Your Account
229: Downloads
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Member Screenshots
243: News
244: Home
245: Home
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: News Archive
250: Home
251: Member Screenshots
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Your Account
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Downloads
262: News Archive
263: Member Screenshots
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Downloads
271: News Archive
272: Home
273: Your Account
274: Member Screenshots
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: News Archive
280: Community Forums
281: News Archive
282: Member Screenshots
283: Community Forums
284: Your Account
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Member Screenshots
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: News Archive
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Member Screenshots
303: Your Account
304: Community Forums
305: Home
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: Community Forums
310: Member Screenshots
311: Your Account
312: Community Forums
313: Member Screenshots
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Home
317: Home
318: Downloads
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Member Screenshots
322: Home
323: News Archive
324: Community Forums
325: Downloads
326: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Neil: Display Info on M1A1
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:22 am
Post subject: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Neil

I climbed in the 'M1A1' on display in the 'OIF' gallery. Beside being totally stripped clean, I did find some interesting tidbits.

I had initially thought this was an M1 IP, but was proven wrong. She is an authentic M1E1!! Shocked




Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Had it been an M1IP I think it would have the 105mm gun (?). Does this one have the mounting hole for the CITV? It will probably be sad to see the museum after the Army takes all of their toys out. I still say the move is a bad idea. Crying or Very sad

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

The question of the 120mm mounted in a turret without the CITV 'hole' (the upper left photo shows the area where it should be,...), is an M-1 IP turret. The IP turret although normally mounting the M68, 105mm main gun, had the gun trunnions capable of mounting the 120mm. The 'IP' 105mm had a counter balance weight to compensate for the difference of the mount of the 120mm vs the 105mm. The 'IP' had been built with the idea of later upgrading to the 120mm, which was in development with the M1E1.

The confusion of IDing this tank has been an M1A1 hull (w/NBC system) and the (initially believed to be) M-1IP turret (ie no existing CITV mount 'hole').

Having compared the turret & Hull data plates, she is a SN matching M1E1 built in 1985.

BTW: The 120mm main gun has a build date of 1989, so I would imagine the gun is an out of tolerance tube that was plugged for her eventual museum 'duty'.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
kenaipo
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 30, 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:10 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

When we got our new M1A1's in the 3d ACR back in 86 or so, all the data plates read M1"E"1 for some reason.

_________________
HHT 1/3 ACR\r\nD Co. 1/3 ACR\r\nHHC TF 1/32 AR. 1 CD\r\nSt. Paul Island PD\r\nAlaska State Troopers\r\nKenai Alaska PD
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:24 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

- kenaipo
When we got our new M1A1's in the 3d ACR back in 86 or so, all the data plates read M1"E"1 for some reason.


Kenaipo

Welcome .

Thanks, I hadn't seen the M1E1 data plate before. I guess they were using up available 'stock'. Since I don't think they made too many true 'E1's'

In 87/88 I was in 3td AD when we transitioned from -IP's to M1A1's. Ours all had M1A1 on the data plate.

This data plate has the 'E' scratched into an 'A'. But theres no telling where or when that was done.

I had thought the SN range was a bit high. As I recall, my first M1A1 was SN L6116.


Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Welcome Kenaipo

Those tanks you guys drew at Bliss ended up eventually at Fort Riley. 3rd ACR was the first operational M1 120mm unit in CONUS and IIRC Army wide. I remember sparing against you guys at NTC. Although it was MILES, your range to kill (code 16 for 120mm as opposed to 12 for 105mm) forced us to change our tactics and we trained specifically for your rotations when they came up.

2nd BDE 1st ID drew your tanks after hostilities ceased during Desert Storm. They turned in their M1IP's for them in Saudi Arabia. They were sitting there since 3rd ACR drew new M1A1HC's prior to hostilities. By the time we started using them at Riley (Fall '91) they were pretty much wore out. All of them had M1E1 Data plates. The back decks did not have the access doors to the oil coolers and we had a few that did not have the CITV "Man Hole" cover on the turret. My tank, C12, had a very early breech group and it was (The Breech) painted Forest Green instead of the normal parkerized finish.

Don, as far as using the Data plate SN to date her, remember, a higher number does not equate to a newer tank all the time, especially when comparing Detroit to Lima production. 6387 is not that far off from 6116. Lima had problems meeting production and that's why Detroit was given contracts to produce tanks. They actually out produced Lima for a while.

About the later gun, could be she was equipped with one of the German made Rheinmettal guns and then switched over for commonality when released from testing. She's not a prototype made from an M1 like the model at FT Hood. Those guns had the same MRS as the 105 tubes, using the notorious strap and bolt set up.
120mm Rheinmettal gun on M1E1
Also could be the gun got destroyed or wore out. 1500 rounds go fast when assigned to a testing facility like Aberdeen or Yuma. Those early 120mm's made by Watervleit suffered badly from chrome lining loss. Only a 2408-4 would tell the story, did she come with a "Gun Card" Laughing

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Joe

A "dash 4",....with a museum vehicle....!!! Laughing

I don't think so, but I'll check.

As for the chrome 'sleeves' flaking,.....I remember that well. The early 120's had a premature deadline criteria due to chrome lining loss. We had a few that 'spewed' flakes during transition gunnery and it became a constant check after each range. I seemed to remember a few in the Company were to be changed but replacement gun tube availability became an issue.

I remember driving my 'IP' into the massive storage building at Germersheim after we turned them in. One section of the building had what seemed to be hundreds of new 120 gun tubes stacked floor to ceiling,......war reserves, I guess couldn't be used..... Rolling Eyes

I do remember during CAT 89 train up, I got a new gun tube that was 'certified' as a 'zero tolerance' tube from the factory. My old tube was no where near EFC deadline, but 'THEY' wanted us to have 'all the best equipment'. (which BTW included a supposedly special 'shooters filter' on the GPS. Installed when our GPS's were individually rebuilt by the civilian 'Tech-Reps')

Ahh the good ole days Rolling Eyes
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Here is a fairly recent 'Joe Pole' photo of the tank in question:



Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

I think the M1A1 outside lacks the CITV hole also. Is that an M1E1? Any idea how many of these were made? This is new to me so I'm curious. I guess it would be pretty unusual to see the 120mm on a hull without the NBS system. I never thought to look at that when I noticed it didn't have the CITV cover plate. I've already mentioned this previously but I got to see the real "ANSWER TO THIS" at Sierra Army Depot, California in 2006. They were storing M1A1's for Anniston an were awaiting rebuild. When I left there were over 800 of them. I wish I had a camera pass! At the time the 3rd ID museum had expressed an interest in acquiring 'ANSWER TO THIS' Don't know what happened to it.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
kenaipo
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 30, 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:27 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Joe D, Thanks for the history on those tanks! I've always wondered, when looking at an M1A1, if I was ever in it while at Bliss. I was a Commo dog in HHT 1/3 ACR then became Commo Chief for D Co. 1/3. We were the first Conus unit to get them, started with 2/3 ACR for some reason and we got them last. I remember the day fondly, I was sick with the flu and thought I was going to die, but I wasn't going to miss that day for anything. I was born and raised in a navy family and joined the army because of my love of tanks. Wink

_________________
HHT 1/3 ACR\r\nD Co. 1/3 ACR\r\nHHC TF 1/32 AR. 1 CD\r\nSt. Paul Island PD\r\nAlaska State Troopers\r\nKenai Alaska PD
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Joe

They had M1A1HC's in 91? Geeez. Did time with 3/8 Cav (former 1/67 Ar) from 92-94, we didn't get '-HCs' til 93. Roll into transition then right into "A Deuce" IOTE, nonstop.


Kenaipo

I see you were in TF 1/32 AR. Y'all were 'next door' as I recall. Had a few friends over there before they switched back to 1/32 AR. They later 'redesignated' to 2/12 Cav. I did time in HHC & D Co 2/12 Cav in 98-01.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Joe

An interesting side question. In 92 we (1/67 Ar) tested the 'M1A2 Platoon'. Those first 'A-Deuce's' were factory built, I assume. So those and the later (1993) M1A2 IOTE M1A2's should have had original M1A2 data plates.

Since the 'A2' fleet were all rebuilds and not 'new' tanks, of that 1st Generation, would the data plates reflect?

I must admit not ever actually checking data plates even with my 'A2' platoon in 2/12. I always took RN/SN data off the rear, and never really had any interest in data plate info, even from the TC position, when I was practically right next to it... Rolling Eyes

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum