±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 576
Total: 576
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Downloads
10: Your Account
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Member Screenshots
17: Community Forums
18: Member Screenshots
19: Member Screenshots
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Downloads
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Member Screenshots
31: Community Forums
32: Member Screenshots
33: Downloads
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Downloads
38: Downloads
39: Downloads
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Home
43: Home
44: Home
45: Home
46: LinkToUs
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Member Screenshots
56: Member Screenshots
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: News
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Home
75: Photo Gallery
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Downloads
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Photo Gallery
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Member Screenshots
93: Downloads
94: Photo Gallery
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Downloads
98: Downloads
99: Downloads
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Home
106: Member Screenshots
107: Photo Gallery
108: Photo Gallery
109: Downloads
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Member Screenshots
117: Downloads
118: Your Account
119: Home
120: Downloads
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Your Account
124: Home
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Home
133: Downloads
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Your Account
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Downloads
145: Your Account
146: Home
147: Home
148: Downloads
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Downloads
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Home
157: Photo Gallery
158: Home
159: Home
160: Statistics
161: News
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Home
166: Downloads
167: Downloads
168: Downloads
169: Downloads
170: Downloads
171: Downloads
172: Member Screenshots
173: Downloads
174: Downloads
175: Downloads
176: Downloads
177: Home
178: Downloads
179: Downloads
180: Downloads
181: Downloads
182: Downloads
183: Community Forums
184: Downloads
185: Downloads
186: News
187: Community Forums
188: Downloads
189: Downloads
190: Home
191: Downloads
192: Downloads
193: Downloads
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Downloads
197: Downloads
198: Photo Gallery
199: Downloads
200: Your Account
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Member Screenshots
216: Downloads
217: Downloads
218: Downloads
219: Downloads
220: Downloads
221: Downloads
222: Downloads
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Downloads
226: Home
227: Downloads
228: Home
229: Downloads
230: Downloads
231: Downloads
232: Downloads
233: Community Forums
234: News
235: Photo Gallery
236: Photo Gallery
237: Home
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Photo Gallery
243: Home
244: Photo Gallery
245: Photo Gallery
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Home
252: Photo Gallery
253: Downloads
254: News Archive
255: Home
256: Downloads
257: Photo Gallery
258: Home
259: Photo Gallery
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Downloads
265: Home
266: Home
267: Photo Gallery
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: News
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Photo Gallery
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Downloads
283: Community Forums
284: Member Screenshots
285: Your Account
286: Community Forums
287: News Archive
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Downloads
301: Community Forums
302: Home
303: Downloads
304: Home
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Photo Gallery
308: Home
309: Home
310: Home
311: Home
312: Downloads
313: Member Screenshots
314: Home
315: Member Screenshots
316: Downloads
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Photo Gallery
328: Community Forums
329: Member Screenshots
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Home
340: Member Screenshots
341: Photo Gallery
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Home
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Member Screenshots
360: Home
361: Home
362: Home
363: Home
364: Home
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Home
369: Home
370: Home
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Home
374: Home
375: Photo Gallery
376: Downloads
377: Home
378: Photo Gallery
379: Home
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: News
390: Member Screenshots
391: Home
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Photo Gallery
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Member Screenshots
400: Home
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Statistics
405: News
406: Your Account
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Community Forums
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Statistics
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Downloads
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Home
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Home
440: News Archive
441: Community Forums
442: Downloads
443: Home
444: Downloads
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Statistics
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Home
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Downloads
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: News Archive
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Member Screenshots
488: Photo Gallery
489: Member Screenshots
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Downloads
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Home
497: Community Forums
498: Your Account
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Downloads
504: Home
505: Your Account
506: Home
507: Downloads
508: Community Forums
509: Photo Gallery
510: Home
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: Community Forums
517: Downloads
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Your Account
522: Member Screenshots
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Home
526: Photo Gallery
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Your Account
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Statistics
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Member Screenshots
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Home
541: News Archive
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Your Account
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Photo Gallery
556: Home
557: Photo Gallery
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Downloads
562: Community Forums
563: Member Screenshots
564: Your Account
565: Photo Gallery
566: Community Forums
567: Home
568: Your Account
569: Community Forums
570: Statistics
571: Community Forums
572: News
573: Statistics
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Neil: Display Info on M1A1
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:22 am
Post subject: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Neil

I climbed in the 'M1A1' on display in the 'OIF' gallery. Beside being totally stripped clean, I did find some interesting tidbits.

I had initially thought this was an M1 IP, but was proven wrong. She is an authentic M1E1!! Shocked




Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Had it been an M1IP I think it would have the 105mm gun (?). Does this one have the mounting hole for the CITV? It will probably be sad to see the museum after the Army takes all of their toys out. I still say the move is a bad idea. Crying or Very sad

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

The question of the 120mm mounted in a turret without the CITV 'hole' (the upper left photo shows the area where it should be,...), is an M-1 IP turret. The IP turret although normally mounting the M68, 105mm main gun, had the gun trunnions capable of mounting the 120mm. The 'IP' 105mm had a counter balance weight to compensate for the difference of the mount of the 120mm vs the 105mm. The 'IP' had been built with the idea of later upgrading to the 120mm, which was in development with the M1E1.

The confusion of IDing this tank has been an M1A1 hull (w/NBC system) and the (initially believed to be) M-1IP turret (ie no existing CITV mount 'hole').

Having compared the turret & Hull data plates, she is a SN matching M1E1 built in 1985.

BTW: The 120mm main gun has a build date of 1989, so I would imagine the gun is an out of tolerance tube that was plugged for her eventual museum 'duty'.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
kenaipo
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 30, 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:10 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

When we got our new M1A1's in the 3d ACR back in 86 or so, all the data plates read M1"E"1 for some reason.

_________________
HHT 1/3 ACR\r\nD Co. 1/3 ACR\r\nHHC TF 1/32 AR. 1 CD\r\nSt. Paul Island PD\r\nAlaska State Troopers\r\nKenai Alaska PD
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:24 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

- kenaipo
When we got our new M1A1's in the 3d ACR back in 86 or so, all the data plates read M1"E"1 for some reason.


Kenaipo

Welcome .

Thanks, I hadn't seen the M1E1 data plate before. I guess they were using up available 'stock'. Since I don't think they made too many true 'E1's'

In 87/88 I was in 3td AD when we transitioned from -IP's to M1A1's. Ours all had M1A1 on the data plate.

This data plate has the 'E' scratched into an 'A'. But theres no telling where or when that was done.

I had thought the SN range was a bit high. As I recall, my first M1A1 was SN L6116.


Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Welcome Kenaipo

Those tanks you guys drew at Bliss ended up eventually at Fort Riley. 3rd ACR was the first operational M1 120mm unit in CONUS and IIRC Army wide. I remember sparing against you guys at NTC. Although it was MILES, your range to kill (code 16 for 120mm as opposed to 12 for 105mm) forced us to change our tactics and we trained specifically for your rotations when they came up.

2nd BDE 1st ID drew your tanks after hostilities ceased during Desert Storm. They turned in their M1IP's for them in Saudi Arabia. They were sitting there since 3rd ACR drew new M1A1HC's prior to hostilities. By the time we started using them at Riley (Fall '91) they were pretty much wore out. All of them had M1E1 Data plates. The back decks did not have the access doors to the oil coolers and we had a few that did not have the CITV "Man Hole" cover on the turret. My tank, C12, had a very early breech group and it was (The Breech) painted Forest Green instead of the normal parkerized finish.

Don, as far as using the Data plate SN to date her, remember, a higher number does not equate to a newer tank all the time, especially when comparing Detroit to Lima production. 6387 is not that far off from 6116. Lima had problems meeting production and that's why Detroit was given contracts to produce tanks. They actually out produced Lima for a while.

About the later gun, could be she was equipped with one of the German made Rheinmettal guns and then switched over for commonality when released from testing. She's not a prototype made from an M1 like the model at FT Hood. Those guns had the same MRS as the 105 tubes, using the notorious strap and bolt set up.
120mm Rheinmettal gun on M1E1
Also could be the gun got destroyed or wore out. 1500 rounds go fast when assigned to a testing facility like Aberdeen or Yuma. Those early 120mm's made by Watervleit suffered badly from chrome lining loss. Only a 2408-4 would tell the story, did she come with a "Gun Card" Laughing

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Joe

A "dash 4",....with a museum vehicle....!!! Laughing

I don't think so, but I'll check.

As for the chrome 'sleeves' flaking,.....I remember that well. The early 120's had a premature deadline criteria due to chrome lining loss. We had a few that 'spewed' flakes during transition gunnery and it became a constant check after each range. I seemed to remember a few in the Company were to be changed but replacement gun tube availability became an issue.

I remember driving my 'IP' into the massive storage building at Germersheim after we turned them in. One section of the building had what seemed to be hundreds of new 120 gun tubes stacked floor to ceiling,......war reserves, I guess couldn't be used..... Rolling Eyes

I do remember during CAT 89 train up, I got a new gun tube that was 'certified' as a 'zero tolerance' tube from the factory. My old tube was no where near EFC deadline, but 'THEY' wanted us to have 'all the best equipment'. (which BTW included a supposedly special 'shooters filter' on the GPS. Installed when our GPS's were individually rebuilt by the civilian 'Tech-Reps')

Ahh the good ole days Rolling Eyes
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Here is a fairly recent 'Joe Pole' photo of the tank in question:



Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

I think the M1A1 outside lacks the CITV hole also. Is that an M1E1? Any idea how many of these were made? This is new to me so I'm curious. I guess it would be pretty unusual to see the 120mm on a hull without the NBS system. I never thought to look at that when I noticed it didn't have the CITV cover plate. I've already mentioned this previously but I got to see the real "ANSWER TO THIS" at Sierra Army Depot, California in 2006. They were storing M1A1's for Anniston an were awaiting rebuild. When I left there were over 800 of them. I wish I had a camera pass! At the time the 3rd ID museum had expressed an interest in acquiring 'ANSWER TO THIS' Don't know what happened to it.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
kenaipo
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 30, 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:27 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Joe D, Thanks for the history on those tanks! I've always wondered, when looking at an M1A1, if I was ever in it while at Bliss. I was a Commo dog in HHT 1/3 ACR then became Commo Chief for D Co. 1/3. We were the first Conus unit to get them, started with 2/3 ACR for some reason and we got them last. I remember the day fondly, I was sick with the flu and thought I was going to die, but I wasn't going to miss that day for anything. I was born and raised in a navy family and joined the army because of my love of tanks. Wink

_________________
HHT 1/3 ACR\r\nD Co. 1/3 ACR\r\nHHC TF 1/32 AR. 1 CD\r\nSt. Paul Island PD\r\nAlaska State Troopers\r\nKenai Alaska PD
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Joe

They had M1A1HC's in 91? Geeez. Did time with 3/8 Cav (former 1/67 Ar) from 92-94, we didn't get '-HCs' til 93. Roll into transition then right into "A Deuce" IOTE, nonstop.


Kenaipo

I see you were in TF 1/32 AR. Y'all were 'next door' as I recall. Had a few friends over there before they switched back to 1/32 AR. They later 'redesignated' to 2/12 Cav. I did time in HHC & D Co 2/12 Cav in 98-01.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Neil: Display Info on M1A1

Joe

An interesting side question. In 92 we (1/67 Ar) tested the 'M1A2 Platoon'. Those first 'A-Deuce's' were factory built, I assume. So those and the later (1993) M1A2 IOTE M1A2's should have had original M1A2 data plates.

Since the 'A2' fleet were all rebuilds and not 'new' tanks, of that 1st Generation, would the data plates reflect?

I must admit not ever actually checking data plates even with my 'A2' platoon in 2/12. I always took RN/SN data off the rear, and never really had any interest in data plate info, even from the TC position, when I was practically right next to it... Rolling Eyes

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum