±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 633
Total: 633
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Member Screenshots
02: Home
03: Home
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Downloads
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Downloads
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Member Screenshots
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Your Account
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Photo Gallery
35: Home
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Member Screenshots
39: Downloads
40: Photo Gallery
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Photo Gallery
53: Downloads
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Member Screenshots
57: Community Forums
58: Downloads
59: Downloads
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Downloads
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Photo Gallery
67: Photo Gallery
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: News Archive
71: Photo Gallery
72: Home
73: Your Account
74: Photo Gallery
75: News Archive
76: Community Forums
77: Member Screenshots
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Member Screenshots
83: Home
84: Member Screenshots
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Home
88: Home
89: News Archive
90: Downloads
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Downloads
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Downloads
101: Community Forums
102: Downloads
103: Community Forums
104: Downloads
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Member Screenshots
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Photo Gallery
121: Home
122: Your Account
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Home
126: Downloads
127: Member Screenshots
128: Community Forums
129: Statistics
130: Photo Gallery
131: Home
132: Photo Gallery
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: News Archive
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: News Archive
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Home
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Home
153: Downloads
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Photo Gallery
157: Home
158: Photo Gallery
159: Home
160: Downloads
161: Downloads
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Member Screenshots
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Home
174: Home
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Home
179: Home
180: News Archive
181: Home
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Member Screenshots
195: Photo Gallery
196: Photo Gallery
197: News Archive
198: Member Screenshots
199: Downloads
200: Photo Gallery
201: Downloads
202: Photo Gallery
203: Home
204: Downloads
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Downloads
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: News Archive
218: Home
219: Home
220: Statistics
221: Home
222: Photo Gallery
223: Home
224: Home
225: Member Screenshots
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Statistics
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Member Screenshots
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: News Archive
239: Community Forums
240: News Archive
241: Home
242: Member Screenshots
243: Photo Gallery
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Photo Gallery
258: Photo Gallery
259: Downloads
260: Statistics
261: Community Forums
262: Downloads
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Photo Gallery
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Photo Gallery
276: Home
277: Photo Gallery
278: Home
279: Home
280: Photo Gallery
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: Member Screenshots
291: Photo Gallery
292: Downloads
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Home
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: News Archive
299: Downloads
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: News Archive
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Member Screenshots
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Member Screenshots
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Member Screenshots
322: Downloads
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Home
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Home
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Home
338: Home
339: Home
340: Home
341: Home
342: Home
343: Downloads
344: Member Screenshots
345: Community Forums
346: Member Screenshots
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Home
351: Home
352: Home
353: Member Screenshots
354: Community Forums
355: Home
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Home
365: Photo Gallery
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Home
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Downloads
376: Community Forums
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Photo Gallery
382: Home
383: Photo Gallery
384: Photo Gallery
385: Home
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Photo Gallery
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Downloads
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Member Screenshots
398: Downloads
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Downloads
403: Photo Gallery
404: Downloads
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Home
408: Photo Gallery
409: Photo Gallery
410: Home
411: Member Screenshots
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Home
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Member Screenshots
418: Photo Gallery
419: Photo Gallery
420: Community Forums
421: Statistics
422: Community Forums
423: News
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Photo Gallery
427: Member Screenshots
428: Downloads
429: Downloads
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Photo Gallery
435: Home
436: Photo Gallery
437: Home
438: Member Screenshots
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Home
442: Member Screenshots
443: Home
444: Home
445: Community Forums
446: Downloads
447: Photo Gallery
448: Member Screenshots
449: Home
450: Member Screenshots
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Downloads
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Member Screenshots
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Member Screenshots
461: Photo Gallery
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Downloads
467: Home
468: Photo Gallery
469: Home
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Home
473: Community Forums
474: Downloads
475: Member Screenshots
476: Photo Gallery
477: Home
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Photo Gallery
483: Photo Gallery
484: Home
485: Home
486: Home
487: Member Screenshots
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Member Screenshots
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Downloads
498: Home
499: Home
500: Photo Gallery
501: Home
502: Home
503: Home
504: Home
505: Home
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Photo Gallery
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Community Forums
514: Photo Gallery
515: Community Forums
516: Member Screenshots
517: Community Forums
518: Downloads
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Downloads
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Your Account
526: Home
527: Community Forums
528: Member Screenshots
529: Photo Gallery
530: Photo Gallery
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Home
535: Home
536: Community Forums
537: Member Screenshots
538: Member Screenshots
539: Home
540: Home
541: Home
542: Photo Gallery
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Downloads
550: Home
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Member Screenshots
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Downloads
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Downloads
562: Home
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Home
566: Member Screenshots
567: Photo Gallery
568: Community Forums
569: Photo Gallery
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Member Screenshots
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: News Archive
577: Home
578: Statistics
579: Photo Gallery
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: News Archive
591: Community Forums
592: Member Screenshots
593: Home
594: Photo Gallery
595: Home
596: Home
597: Member Screenshots
598: Photo Gallery
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Home
602: Your Account
603: Member Screenshots
604: Photo Gallery
605: Home
606: Statistics
607: Photo Gallery
608: Community Forums
609: Home
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Photo Gallery
616: Photo Gallery
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Home
620: Home
621: Member Screenshots
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Member Screenshots
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Home
628: Community Forums
629: Member Screenshots
630: Community Forums
631: Member Screenshots
632: Home
633: Member Screenshots

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:21 am
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Now I wonder how the austrian model looks like... Could it be it looks like the swiss model and the gun with the muzzle brake is indeed austrian? Anybody can help?

The swiss guns usually have the swiss cross stamped on the breech.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:37 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Of course, I should have posted that before - from the one the museum has identified (apparently accurately?):





Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:47 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

That's the italian one. Build by Ansaldo in 1942, in Pozzuoli factory. This confirm the identification

Do you have something like that for the gun with the muzzle brake?

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Unfortunately, I dont think so... In fact, I recently had the pictures in the same folder - thinking they were the same gun. I was going through my photos and realized they were indeed two different guns. Unfortunately, it doesnt appear that I took any breech photos of the second one...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

- Massimo_Foti
The one without the muzzle brake looks italian (same for the gun in Borden).
The gun with the muzzle brake matches the swiss model. I wonder how it end up in Aberdeen.

Massimo


Perhaps its an original Austrian Böhler? - assume some were used by the German Army and then probably captured by the US Army and brought to Aberdeen?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Perhaps its an original Austrian Böhler?


That's possible, or even an austrian gun used by the italians. But we are just wild guessing Confused

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:26 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Hi folks

I did some research
At the beginning of WW2 there where some various users of the 47mm Bohler

The main user being Austria / Switserland / Italy / The Netherlands / Russia
The guns that where captured by the German army all recieved an German iventory number - 177(i) / 187(h) / 196(r)
Obvious the Austrian and Swiss guns did not recieve an special inventory number

The German army used them only at the beginning of the war on all fronts, so Eastern Europe, Africa, the Balkans, etc
After becoming obselete most of them moved to training locations or coastal defence, some remained in front line service as infantry gun

So the gun can be picked up at allmost any battle field

I also tried to find some picture's of the gun at Austrian websites, the result was almost none
However I found an picture of an Autrian Bohler in an Autrian army magazine
The complete text is german only, however on page 18 is an nice picture
www.bmlv.gv.at/sk/lask...032008.pdf

The picture is not very good, however the wheels and muzzle brake are recognizable
Rims are of the spoked type, however that where an lot of artillery rims at the start of the war, later they changed to closed disc like type's
There is also an muzzle brake, which appears to be with the big slots

That about the idea that the gun is picked-up on an battle field somewhere in Europe or Africa

And now for an new idea Mr. Green
Is it not possible that the US army bought the gun before the war Confused
I know they bought some German 37mm PaK for testing, so why not an Austrian 47mm Bohler?

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Aha! I appear to have resolved the mystery, thanks to cross-checking against the Ordnance Museum's other 47mm anti-tank guns...

The Museum has this mystery piece identified as a Finnish PstK/39 47mm anti-tank gun.

Here it is on a different display inside the museum - again, I failed to recognize before that this was the same gun.











Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:40 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Good thing to have it identified Mr. Green

However this also raises an new question Confused

How did an Finnish PstK/39 47mm anti-tank gun end up at the Ordnance Museum ???
According the description the Finish army only had 32 guns, so it was not widely used
And to my knowledge Finland only was at war with Russia during WW2

About the description
There is an little error in it about the crew protection, or better the lack of it
The gun could be fitted with an gun shield, however this was hardly ever used in service
That is an error of the gun crew, not an design fault of the gun

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:45 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Michel,
It appears to have been a recent acquisition by the museum - 2004.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:05 pm
Post subject: Re: ID Help Needed - Anti-Tank pieces?

Michel,
It appears to have been a recent acquisition by the museum - 2004.

Neil


Those the Finish army have more of them for sale?
Would an nice little gun to scare the neighbours Mr. Green Mr. Green

Michel

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum