±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 375
Total: 375
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Member Screenshots
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Downloads
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Downloads
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Home
30: Home
31: News Archive
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Home
36: Member Screenshots
37: Home
38: Home
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Member Screenshots
46: Home
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Downloads
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Home
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Home
61: Photo Gallery
62: Home
63: Photo Gallery
64: Home
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Member Screenshots
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Downloads
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Home
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Member Screenshots
90: Community Forums
91: News
92: Community Forums
93: News Archive
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Home
106: Home
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Home
115: News
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Photo Gallery
119: Member Screenshots
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Member Screenshots
123: Home
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Downloads
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Downloads
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Downloads
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Home
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Home
152: Downloads
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Tell a Friend
156: Statistics
157: Community Forums
158: News Archive
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Member Screenshots
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Downloads
179: Member Screenshots
180: Community Forums
181: Member Screenshots
182: Home
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Member Screenshots
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Home
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Photo Gallery
214: Downloads
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Home
220: Member Screenshots
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Home
226: Photo Gallery
227: Home
228: Statistics
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Photo Gallery
241: Home
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Home
265: Member Screenshots
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Photo Gallery
273: Downloads
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: Member Screenshots
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Home
301: Home
302: Home
303: Home
304: Home
305: Home
306: Home
307: Home
308: Home
309: Home
310: Home
311: Home
312: Home
313: Home
314: Member Screenshots
315: Home
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Downloads
321: Home
322: Downloads
323: Community Forums
324: Downloads
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Community Forums
331: Member Screenshots
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Your Account
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Downloads
352: Community Forums
353: Downloads
354: Home
355: LinkToUs
356: Community Forums
357: Home
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Home
363: Member Screenshots
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Downloads
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:56 pm
Post subject: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Camp Mabry? Restored and on display?

www.msc.navy.mil/seali...r/tank.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 9:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

I have no info on it - I'll list it as stored?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:10 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Indulge me the moral high ground, but how arrogant of any visiting military force to pillage a national artifact! Whatever is in the country, belongs to that country - "abandoned" or not. There is no detail in the story about where the tank was found. Whoever left it there, did so for reasons unknown to the finders.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:26 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

First off, if its a US tank, it may still technically be US property - or at the least US approval is necessary for its transfer (re-export) to any other military forces than the original end-user. I highly suspect "Yugoslavia" did not request its transfer to the Bosnian Serb forces and were technically in violation of the original MDAP agreement...

Secondly there's the issue of the rights accorded to IFOR, and then SFOR, under the Dayton Agreement - which were rather wide-ranging. If not full occupying power rights, as fell to the OIF forces in Iraq for example...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 4:37 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

I think the problem lies in the 'misreported' article. I don't think it was just taken.

Having served in Bosnia during SFOR 5 (1999), I know of at least two tank destroyers that came out of Bosnia, and there was never an official mention of the facts of the deal. The US paid (literally) for the transfer of the Tank Destroyers.

The vehicles were part of the Bosnian Serb stored equipment that was considered 'excess' and the Bosnian Govt was more than happy to be rid of them. It meant that they were no longer the responsibility of the RS to be stored or accounted for and it was a gesture that the RS was attempting to 'disarm' in the face of the Dayton Accords.

The M47 looks to be in excellent condition, and I seriously doubt it was anything close to having been abandoned and sitting 'in the bushes'. More likely 'donated' by the local Weapon Storage site commander for a modest fee that perhaps went to pay the local soldiers.

I was at Camp Demi, south of Camp McGovern and I doubt any tanks were overlooked in that area (located near Brcko, a seriously contested area along the Zone Of Seperation or ZOS.)

JMHO
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:44 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Indulge me the moral high ground, but how arrogant of any visiting military force to pillage a national artifact! Whatever is in the country, belongs to that country - "abandoned" or not.


Ok, let me get this straight, you're going to rag on the U.S. for intervening in a country that was killing and raping it's own population and some how we are the bad guys for taking back something that belonged to the U.S. to begin with? I would hardly consider a M47 LOANED to them as a national artifact. They have several "national artifacts" in the Great White North that your military has brought back from around the world. How arrogant is that? You have a unique perspective on the world.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

I'm sorry I asked in the first place. Rolling Eyes

The overall tone that this thread has assumed is not a welcome one. FYI, "Maple_Leaf_Eh", the "moral high ground" is not being ceded to anybody, least of all to someone who's post was unnecessarily confrontational.

I suggest all parties desist unless they have documentation to offer that further enlightens the issue. Thus far, Neil and especially Don have done the best job of making the situation more clear.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:19 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Any ideas about the user of this M47? The ''same'' camo pattern I have seen on M18s of the Vojska Federacia (VF) of BIH in 2003. These vehicles had r/ns ending with a B or a C (for example VF-0014B). IIRC the last letter indicated if it was a Bosnian or Bosnian/Croat unit.

Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

- L.Delsing
Any ideas about the user of this M47? The ''same'' camo pattern I have seen on M18s of the Vojska Federacia (VF) of BIH in 2003. These vehicles had r/ns ending with a B or a C (for example VF-0014B). IIRC the last letter indicated if it was a Bosnian or Bosnian/Croat unit.



Lesley,
Is THAT what the M18 is?! I got that pic from somewhere myself, cropped, darkened and used as my desktop for years. I thought it was from the Ardennes or something. Just created my own reality for the context.

Regards,
Doug
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:42 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

It is taken near Glamoc (BiH) in the vicinity of grid N44 04.453 E016 49.620. The camp NE of that grid we had parked our tanks and the M18, which were used as hard target were parked in the vicinity of the grid. The picture is taken from the turret of my tank when driving to the range. It was ''horizontal effect snow'' at that moment.

It looked like the ardennes, driving in German tanks, mountainous terrain, cold, snow and shooting at the ''enemy'' which were the M18s Wink




Back to top
View user's profile
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Any ideas about the user of this M47?


As pointed out, it's not a M47 it's a M18. In the group of pictures the second one is a M36.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

- tanker2010
Any ideas about the user of this M47?


As pointed out, it's not a M47 it's a M18. In the group of pictures the second one is a M36.


I think Lesley was asking about the user of the M47 at the start of this thread because it has a similar camo scheme to the M18 he shows in Bosnia.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Yes, that is correct Trevor.

regards
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

- Doug_Kibbey

I thought it was from the Ardennes or something. Just created my own reality for the context.

Regards,
Doug


Something like this..... Wink



Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

- Dontos

Something like this..... Wink


Regards
Don


Don,
This, actually. On a black background, it's just chilling.
D.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum