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Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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bialy-r
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia
Sherman in Novi Sad (Serbia) www.flickr.com/photos/...576337880/ Last edited by bialy-r on Thu May 20, 2010 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total

the_shadock
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Sherman in Novi Sad (Serbia)
seems an M4A3 with 47° glacis ans wet stowage, with a 75mm turret and mantlet, and a 76mm gun. P-O _________________ soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates

tanker2010
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Sherman in Novi Sad (Serbia)
It's a M4A3E4. The E4 designates it being regunned with the 76MM gun. Several European countries and India received these through MAP.

bialy-r
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Sherman in Novi Sad (Serbia)
Other Shermans form Jugoslavia Park of Military History, Pivka (Slovenia) Are this two Shermans a M4A3E4 model ? Monument: www.flickr.com/photos/...622547494/ Inside museum: www.flickr.com/photos/...622552046/

binder001
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Sherman in Novi Sad (Serbia)
Yes, the two Shermans in your links are M4A3E4s. THe one inside the museum seems to be in pretty good condition. Even when the batch of Yugoslavian M4A3E4s was used in "Kelly's Heroes" they seemed well used. Not just because the movie people wanted them to look like veteran tanks but in near views the tracks and roadwheels seemed pretty worn down.

bialy-r
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia
This one from Muzejska Zbirka Naoružanja Domovinskog Rata, Kralovac (Croatia) picasaweb.google.pl/mi...8145898178 Is it M4A3E4 model too ? Museum photo gallery: picasaweb.google.pl/mi...edwebsite#

binder001
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Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia

First, yes, that is an M4A3E4.

Second, this is interesting as it has the earlier turret with the applique armor reinforcement on the right front "cheek" of the turret. The M4A3E4s were rebuilt from M4A3 75mm Wet Stowage tanks in the USA for foreign military sales. These tanks generally had the later turrets with the cast in turret reinforcements, although there are some WW2 photos showing M4A3s with the earlier turrets.

clausb
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Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia

Binder,

As far as I can tell, the M4A3E4 was rebuilt from VVVS 75mm wet stowage hull as well as M4A3 105mm VVVS hulls, using whatever turrets could be had. Several of the Danish Army M4A3E4 (all ex- 105m vehicles) have older turrets with applique armour and low bustles and the same seems to be the case with these Yogoslav vehicles. Possibly some of the old turrets came from tanks converted to recovery vehicles and such?
My guess is that hulls and turrets were renovated in different production lines, leading to odd mixes in the final product.

Claus B

L.Delsing
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Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia
- bialy-r This one from Muzejska Zbirka Naoružanja Domovinskog Rata, Kralovac (Croatia) Isn't this actually located in Turanj (SE of Karlovac)? Regards

Kurt_Laughlin
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Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia

- clausb

As far as I can tell, the M4A3E4 was rebuilt from VVVS 75mm wet stowage hull as well as M4A3 105mm VVVS hulls, using whatever turrets could be had. Several of the Danish Army M4A3E4 (all ex- 105m vehicles) have older turrets with applique armour and low bustles and the same seems to be the case with these Yogoslav vehicles. Possibly some of the old turrets came from tanks converted to recovery vehicles and such?
My guess is that hulls and turrets were renovated in different production lines, leading to odd mixes in the final product.

Claus B

Claus, do you have serials for these ex-105mm tanks, or are there other indications that they were built as 105mm? I ask because the Ordnance Committee Meeting discussion of the conversion mentions only 75mm tanks being used for the conversion. Also, because the gun mount was a modified M34A1 75mm mount, using a 105mm turret would require finding a 75mm mount to convert.

KL

tanker2010
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Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia
as well as M4A3 105mm VVVS hulls, using whatever turrets could be had I understand that to mean they just used the hulls, not the turrets of the 105 Shermans.

Kurt_Laughlin
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Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia

- tanker2010

as well as M4A3 105mm VVVS hulls, using whatever turrets could be had

I understand that to mean they just used the hulls, not the turrets of the 105 Shermans.

Yeah, but everything I've seen refers to 75mm tanks (=hulls), not 105mm tanks (=hulls).

The point of the program was to utilize obsolete tanks to support MDAP requirements. Adding complexity and cost by taking hulls from one place and turrets from another would not seem to be in the direction they wanted to go.

KL

Maple_Leaf_Eh
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia
Ed Storey told me once the reason why the seemingly plentiful Shermans weren't used during the Yugo Civil War '91-'95, was because they were all retired when the T55s appeared. They were distributed around the countryside according to some formula of how many partisans a particular town had contributed.

bialy-r
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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia
Military Barracks, Banja Luka (Bosnia and Herzegovina) s106.photobucket.com/a...600031.jpg

bialy-r
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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Shermans in ex-Jugoslavia
Umknown military area s106.photobucket.com/a.../?start=40

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