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warddw · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 24

Does anyone have a full backup of that website? I did but lost it in a disk crash...

Regards
Scotsman

Michel_Krauss · Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

Because of the question I got curious and started digging an little

That's because I don't know the original site

I found an site with an link where it is possible to download an big part of the photo's

link killed

If you look at the part of "March 17, 2010" there is an link to download an rar file with an lot of picture's

This site is from the person who build the "diorama clervaux"
the big 1/35 castle that appeared in an lot of modelling magazine's

However I don't know if the photo's are as good / big as the original photo's Neutral

Michel

post edited: removed link

Koluchiy · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: May 19, 2009 Posts: 178

Thank you very much :).

That was good site... :'-(

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

I hope he obtained Mike Kendall's permission to upload that as Mike was very emphatic about that not being done. He'd announced the end of his website long in advance and encouraged downloading anything of interest, but with the proviso that it not be uploaded or reproduced anywhere without his explicit permission.

tanker2010 · Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

No, he did not. When he posted this link up on Armorama a few months back, he was asked if he did and he said no. A few people said it wasn't right to do it, but as with a lot of people on the web, he says once it's out there anyone can use it. He was also trying to promote his own website by the fact he had the pics there.

chrisballance · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 16, 2010 Posts: 31

AFV Interiors was of the great 1st generation AFV websites, but like a lot of those first generation sites its gone for a reason, it was unsustainable. I never had the chance to meet Mike Kendall, and so I don't know all the reasons for shuttering of AFV Interiors, but I do know servers and bandwidth cost money and individuals burn out easily when profit is not available to deal with ever rising out of pocket costs. AFV Interiors could have made a great book series in a format like Panzerwrecks, but it's unlikely to happen as long as Mike's site is still available for free on net (if you know where to look). There are just not enough people willing to pay for the specialized content.

But maybe, just maybe, I am wrong and there is a way....

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

- tanker2010

No, he did not. When he posted this link up on Armorama a few months back, he was asked if he did and he said no. A few people said it wasn't right to do it, but as with a lot of people on the web, he says once it's out there anyone can use it. He was also trying to promote his on website by the fact he had the pics there.

Please check your PM's. Thanks.

Michel_Krauss · Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

Guy's,

because of the discusion I received an mail from the owner of the site with the download link

This is what he send me, I copied the precise text:

I just read the discussion on this website and i do not want to register just to clarify this.
I would like to ask you if you can rectify the last poster (tanker 2010)

I indeed did not ask the original owner of the website (i have no particular interest in AFV and did not even know who is the owner until this discussions).
I only remember what another poster said that everybody interested should download it before closing down.
I have the file, see the repeated desire of posters to get it, i have a small website, so that's it.

I do not remember anything else , like this proviso (sp) to not offer for download anymore.

So i am of the opinion that it was his desire to get it out. I do care about copyright but consider this one as legitimate.
If tanker2010 can prove his opinion, i will delete the file. He reads Armorama and could have raised his voice then, but i do not remember that.
People with a bad conscience should simply not download it then.
As over a hundred did download it, i think i did the right thing to offer it to the community.

I do not earn money by luring people to my site, there are no Google ads, nothing, so there is no commercial thinking behind this also.
The audience (AFV interested) is probably not interested in my book anyway, so i don't take that as an argument.
Anyway, after the initial rush it soon calmed down and nobody looks at it anymore. Well, until now.

Greets

I removed the link from my first post and for me the discussion is over

Michel

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

- Michel_Krauss

Guy's,

because of the discusion I received an mail from the owner of the site with the download link

This is what he send me, I copied the precise text:

I just read the discussion on this website and i do not want to register just to clarify this.
I would like to ask you if you can rectify the last poster (tanker 2010)

I indeed did not ask the original owner of the website (i have no particular interest in AFV and did not even know who is the owner until this discussions).
I only remember what another poster said that everybody interested should download it before closing down.
I have the file, see the repeated desire of posters to get it, i have a small website, so that's it.

I do not remember anything else , like this proviso (sp) to not offer for download anymore.

So i am of the opinion that it was his desire to get it out. I do care about copyright but consider this one as legitimate.
If tanker2010 can prove his opinion, i will delete the file. He reads Armorama and could have raised his voice then, but i do not remember that.
People with a bad conscience should simply not download it then.
As over a hundred did download it, i think i did the right thing to offer it to the community.

I do not earn money by luring people to my site, there are no Google ads, nothing, so there is no commercial thinking behind this also.
The audience (AFV interested) is probably not interested in my book anyway, so i don't take that as an argument.
Anyway, after the initial rush it soon calmed down and nobody looks at it anymore. Well, until now.

Greets

I removed the link from my first post and for me the discussion is over

Michel

A lot of prevarication going on in his reply. Mike Kendall's intentions were made very clear...as I was one of many contributors to that site, he and I had periodic contact and there is no mistaking what his position was regarding reproduction of the material there. This also means that those many people who contributed material to Mike for use on his site are having it distributed without their permission. This is offensive.

Clearly, this individual is driven by a mis-guided sense of entitlement to the labors of others and if the original author (whose intentions were made abundantly clear) is not around to object, well, he'll just upload it as he sees fit. Part of the "if it exists digitally, then it must be free, whatever the author's wishes were" mentality. Absolutely lacking in character and principle.

Unconscionable.

piney · Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

I looked at this person's website and while he is a talented modeller, He is also selling a book about his work (no doubt copyrighted), I wonder how he would feel if his book were converted to a digital format and freely distributed without his permission (not even mentioning his loss of profits)?

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- piney

I looked at this person's website and while he is a talented modeller, He is also selling a book about his work (no doubt copyrighted), I wonder how he would feel if his book were converted to a digital format and freely distributed without his permission (not even mentioning his loss of profits)?

It's only a matter of time! There is at least one site that I know of where you can download many hundreds of modeling reference books, including several of the Hunnicutt books. They apparently operate offshore, and there is nothing anyone seems to be able to do to stop it. It will be interesting to hear this fellow's comments when he discovers his expensive book available online for free.

C

tanker2010 · Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

Here was his original post on Armorama:

www.armorama.com/modul...222&page=1

If you scroll down through it, you'll see objections were raised by a TonyDz, as you can see, he just brushed aside the objection. There was also a small discussion about it on ML:

www.network54.com/Foru...Kendall...

Doug, you might be able to reach Mike through Greg Harting. This Claude, seems to think Mike gave him some kind of go ahead to put it out there, which it seems he did not.

JimWeb · Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:01 am Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

Somebody tell Mike that I will host it on JED if he is interested (yeah I miss it as well). At least then it will be available for people to see properly.

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

- JimWeb

Somebody tell Mike that I will host it on JED if he is interested (yeah I miss it as well). At least then it will be available for people to see properly.

That's generous of you Jim, but unless something has changed, he seemed not to be interested in pursuing. I say that because I made several offers before he took his site down seeking to host him for free (such as here, or another server I think would have offered) but after two moves already he declined and the interest seemed not to be there.
Circumstances change for people, and his may not have permitted continued involvement.

What is irrefutably clear is that if the creator/owner of a work wishes to take it down and not have it uploaded by others without permission, that certainly must be respected, unlike the present situation. Just because "demand is high" is no reason to ignore the rights of the owner. Some people seem to believe that if some people want it bad enough, they have the right to upload someone else' work. I've tried to reach Mike (yesterday), but my email hit a dead-end as he'd changed service.

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: AFV interiors

- tanker2010

Here was his original post on Armorama:

www.armorama.com/modul...amp;page=1

If you scroll down through it, you'll see objections were raised by a TonyDz, as you can see, he just brushed aside the objection. There was also a small discussion about it on ML:

www.network54.com/Foru...Kendall...

Doug, you might be able to reach Mike through Greg Harting. This Claude, seems to think Mike gave him some kind of go ahead to put it out there, which it seems he did not.

Looking at Greg's quote (I do not know him by name) he said the following:
_________________________________________________________
"Mike who?!
March 19 2010, 11:34 AM
Jim,

I see Mike on a semi-regular basis. If you're wanting to host AFV Interiors, Mike's not interested in putting it back up at this time - others have made the offer.

Greg Harting"
__________________________________________________________

That last sentence was exactly my experience and the space/bandwidth/traffic was not an issue for alternative sites. He wasn't interested (he and I broached the topic 3-4 times) and according to the date of Greg's post, still isn't.

Mike Kendall did a great service to the armor community and it's reprehensible that some people are paying him back by stealing his content and uploading against his wishes.

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