±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 675
Total: 675
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Member Screenshots
03: Home
04: News Archive
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Member Screenshots
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Home
29: Member Screenshots
30: Home
31: Photo Gallery
32: News
33: Downloads
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Member Screenshots
40: Member Screenshots
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: News Archive
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Member Screenshots
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Member Screenshots
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Member Screenshots
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Downloads
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Member Screenshots
66: Downloads
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Downloads
72: Home
73: Home
74: Member Screenshots
75: Community Forums
76: Member Screenshots
77: Home
78: Search
79: Home
80: Downloads
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Member Screenshots
84: News
85: Statistics
86: Community Forums
87: Member Screenshots
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Member Screenshots
91: Community Forums
92: Member Screenshots
93: Member Screenshots
94: Photo Gallery
95: News Archive
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Member Screenshots
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Downloads
111: Community Forums
112: Member Screenshots
113: Member Screenshots
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Downloads
132: Community Forums
133: News Archive
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: News Archive
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Member Screenshots
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Downloads
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: News Archive
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Downloads
157: Home
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Home
162: Community Forums
163: Member Screenshots
164: Photo Gallery
165: Photo Gallery
166: Your Account
167: Home
168: Home
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Member Screenshots
173: News Archive
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Member Screenshots
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Member Screenshots
185: Home
186: Statistics
187: Home
188: Member Screenshots
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Member Screenshots
206: Downloads
207: Member Screenshots
208: Community Forums
209: Downloads
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Member Screenshots
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Photo Gallery
224: Home
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Home
231: Home
232: Photo Gallery
233: Photo Gallery
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Home
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Supporters
244: Member Screenshots
245: News Archive
246: Community Forums
247: Statistics
248: Photo Gallery
249: Member Screenshots
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Statistics
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Your Account
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Downloads
264: Home
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Member Screenshots
268: Community Forums
269: Home
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Member Screenshots
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: News Archive
281: Your Account
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Member Screenshots
287: Photo Gallery
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Downloads
292: Photo Gallery
293: Member Screenshots
294: Member Screenshots
295: Home
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Member Screenshots
303: Member Screenshots
304: News Archive
305: Member Screenshots
306: Member Screenshots
307: News Archive
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Downloads
313: Downloads
314: Member Screenshots
315: News Archive
316: Downloads
317: Community Forums
318: Member Screenshots
319: Community Forums
320: Statistics
321: Member Screenshots
322: Home
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Downloads
326: Community Forums
327: News
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Photo Gallery
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: News Archive
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Member Screenshots
337: Community Forums
338: News Archive
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Home
342: Downloads
343: News Archive
344: Member Screenshots
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Photo Gallery
348: Photo Gallery
349: Community Forums
350: News
351: Home
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: News Archive
356: Member Screenshots
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Member Screenshots
362: Member Screenshots
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Member Screenshots
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Downloads
371: Home
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Statistics
376: Photo Gallery
377: Photo Gallery
378: Home
379: News Archive
380: Home
381: Member Screenshots
382: Member Screenshots
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Member Screenshots
388: Community Forums
389: Photo Gallery
390: Member Screenshots
391: Member Screenshots
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Member Screenshots
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Home
405: Member Screenshots
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Member Screenshots
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Photo Gallery
415: Downloads
416: Community Forums
417: Member Screenshots
418: Community Forums
419: Statistics
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: News Archive
425: Statistics
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Photo Gallery
429: Member Screenshots
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Home
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Statistics
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: News
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Home
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Photo Gallery
447: Photo Gallery
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Member Screenshots
452: Member Screenshots
453: Community Forums
454: Downloads
455: Member Screenshots
456: News Archive
457: Member Screenshots
458: Member Screenshots
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Downloads
462: Photo Gallery
463: Community Forums
464: News Archive
465: Home
466: Community Forums
467: Photo Gallery
468: Statistics
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Statistics
472: Home
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Home
479: Community Forums
480: Member Screenshots
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Community Forums
484: Downloads
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Photo Gallery
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Photo Gallery
500: Member Screenshots
501: Home
502: Member Screenshots
503: Photo Gallery
504: Photo Gallery
505: Home
506: Member Screenshots
507: Community Forums
508: Photo Gallery
509: Member Screenshots
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Home
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Downloads
517: Community Forums
518: Home
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Home
528: Home
529: Photo Gallery
530: Community Forums
531: Home
532: Community Forums
533: Member Screenshots
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Statistics
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: LinkToUs
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Home
543: Home
544: News Archive
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Downloads
552: Home
553: Member Screenshots
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Home
557: Community Forums
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Photo Gallery
563: Community Forums
564: Your Account
565: Community Forums
566: Home
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Member Screenshots
570: News Archive
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery
573: Photo Gallery
574: Downloads
575: News Archive
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Home
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Photo Gallery
590: Home
591: News
592: Photo Gallery
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Photo Gallery
598: Supporters
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: Community Forums
603: Member Screenshots
604: Community Forums
605: Photo Gallery
606: Community Forums
607: Statistics
608: Member Screenshots
609: Community Forums
610: Member Screenshots
611: Member Screenshots
612: Member Screenshots
613: Photo Gallery
614: Community Forums
615: Photo Gallery
616: Community Forums
617: Home
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Photo Gallery
622: News
623: Photo Gallery
624: Community Forums
625: News Archive
626: Photo Gallery
627: Home
628: Member Screenshots
629: Photo Gallery
630: Member Screenshots
631: Member Screenshots
632: Photo Gallery
633: Member Screenshots
634: Photo Gallery
635: News Archive
636: Community Forums
637: Member Screenshots
638: Member Screenshots
639: Community Forums
640: Member Screenshots
641: Community Forums
642: News Archive
643: Community Forums
644: Member Screenshots
645: Statistics
646: Member Screenshots
647: Member Screenshots
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Member Screenshots
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Home
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Home
657: Statistics
658: Member Screenshots
659: News Archive
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Member Screenshots
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Home
671: Community Forums
672: Downloads
673: Home
674: News Archive
675: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:27 pm
Post subject: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello,

Wiml Dirks pointed something out in an email I received some days ago :

Bruce Crompton, who owns a SdKfz 250, a 251 and what is believed to be an original Jagdpanzer 38(t), participated to a reenactment event at Overloon in May 2010.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/sets/72157623957457977/

Some photos of the interior show the marking "Achtung! Panzerjägerkanone 40 - schiessen ohne Mündungsbremse verboten", which translated, means "Beware! Panzerjäger gun 40 - Fire without the muzzle brake is forbidden"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/4615687815/in/set-72157623957457977/

The problem is that German Jagdpanzer 38(t) don't have muzzle brakes, only G-13s have this feature.

Does it mean that the tank is indeed a G-13, or does it rather mean that the interior was restored like a G-13 interior?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I'd say it's a G13, since only G13s have the muzzle brakes, like you say. The German text must have been put on by the Swiss since it's effectively their primary language (whether officially or not).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

On top of that, original Hetzers had KwK 39 guns, G-13s had StuK 40 guns. So even the number referring to the gun tells it could be a G-13.

But I have to say that usually stencils on swiss tanks are written both in german and french.

I just checked my interior pictures from the G-13 in Schaffhausen, and saw no stencils at all.

I would still hesitate to flag this as G-13. Better put a question mark on it.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
WimD.
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 118
Location: The Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- WimD.
Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.


yes, but the information on my website are not 100% reliable..

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

He has done a good job on it but after spending the past two hours going through every image I have of these vehicles I think I can safely say it was originally a G13/G13D/G14...

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all,

I just saw this topic and I might be able to contribute a bit.

I made the pics in the gallery linked in the first post. The marking in question is indeed incorrect for this vehicle. It is an older restoration and I guess that interior photos from an G-13 (possibly from a manual) were used as a reference. According to the Crompton Collection's chief mechanic (who didn't work on the restoration of the Hetzer), some time in the future it is scheduled to have a rebuild which would include a full repaint inside and out along with a full mechanical overhaul. There are several other restorationprojects in the pipeline that come first though, so it might be a while before it's the Hetzers' turn.

That said, this Hetzer is an original 1944 early production vehicle. It was indeed recovered from the Vilseck barracks where it was buried after the war, together with (I think) a Pz IV. It still has battle scars on mainly the right side from small arms fire and shrapnel. It also has most of the features found on early production vehicles (exhaust route, early pattern roadwheels and first pattern drive sprockets).

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
VonForhud
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Why would someone bury a hetzer and a Mark IV? Lack of fuel?

_________________
hvasnakkerduom.blogspo...wagen.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Pzkpfw-e
I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?

No it isn't, but I don't know who the owner is.


- Pzkpfw-e
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.

That would be the most likely scenario I would say. Although it has lots of battle scars I don't think it got a devasting hit.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

The interior is correct for a Hetzer. might have been incorrectly stenciled. guns, muzzle brakes, cupolas and even turrets can be easily changed and should not be used as the only reference for the model of a particular model of tank.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Tobias Haudenschild forwarded me his observations on this tank. I am posting on his behalf:

According to MY knowledge, it has to be a Swiss G-13. Here are my arguments:

The gun as such seems to be a PAK 39. But the horizontal movement of the PAK 39 (in Hetzers) was achieved by a cardan shaft that is completely missing on this particular vehicle. Besides, all handles and mountings for the gun are identical to the G-13's arrangement.

The firing button (on picture 065) was a Swiss modification (in G-13s it was actually red).

The driver's instrument panel is the one used in G-13s. In the Hetzer the display for water temperature was located on the far left of the panel.

A clear identification could be achieved by checking wheter the vehicle has an escape hatch on the floor of the fighting compartment, as only Swiss G-13s had this hatch...

You were actually right that Swiss G-13s were marked both in German and French on the interior. For sure the interior markings shown in the pictures are not of Swiss origin. They might be an invention of the vehicle's owner.

Altogether I have to say that it is a very fine G-13 to Hetzer conversion that features a lot of details that makes it look like an original Hetzer.


Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/

The Vilseck Pzkpfw IV--Restoration(?) Wheatcroft now the tank stands in the IWM Duxford

Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Andreas
Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/
Andreas

This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic , but perhaps it is one of Wheatcrofts' vehicles?

It could very well be that G-13 interior pictures or manuals and even some parts were (incorrectly) used in or as a reference during the restoration, what would explain the presence of some G-13 parts/details. It does not have an escape hatch.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello David

"This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic "........but it looks very (very) similar!!


Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum