±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 425
Total: 425
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Member Screenshots
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Downloads
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Downloads
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Home
18: Member Screenshots
19: News
20: Member Screenshots
21: Downloads
22: Statistics
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Member Screenshots
26: Home
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Supporters
31: Home
32: News Archive
33: Home
34: Downloads
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Member Screenshots
42: Community Forums
43: Member Screenshots
44: Member Screenshots
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Downloads
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Downloads
56: Home
57: News Archive
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: News
66: Home
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Home
71: Downloads
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Downloads
79: Downloads
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Home
83: Statistics
84: Photo Gallery
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Home
92: Home
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: News Archive
96: Photo Gallery
97: Member Screenshots
98: Home
99: Member Screenshots
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Member Screenshots
105: News Archive
106: News Archive
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Photo Gallery
114: Statistics
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Member Screenshots
120: Home
121: Photo Gallery
122: Photo Gallery
123: Home
124: Member Screenshots
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Downloads
129: Home
130: Photo Gallery
131: Home
132: Photo Gallery
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Member Screenshots
136: Home
137: Home
138: Home
139: Downloads
140: Photo Gallery
141: Downloads
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: News Archive
145: Community Forums
146: Downloads
147: Statistics
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Photo Gallery
151: Member Screenshots
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Home
160: Home
161: Your Account
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Member Screenshots
172: Home
173: Member Screenshots
174: Photo Gallery
175: Home
176: News
177: Member Screenshots
178: Photo Gallery
179: Photo Gallery
180: Downloads
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Home
187: News
188: Statistics
189: Community Forums
190: News
191: Downloads
192: Home
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Downloads
197: Community Forums
198: Member Screenshots
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Member Screenshots
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: News Archive
209: Home
210: Search
211: Member Screenshots
212: Statistics
213: News Archive
214: Photo Gallery
215: News Archive
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Home
222: News Archive
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Home
227: News Archive
228: Photo Gallery
229: Photo Gallery
230: Home
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Statistics
235: Community Forums
236: Your Account
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Member Screenshots
240: News Archive
241: Home
242: Downloads
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Member Screenshots
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Photo Gallery
251: Member Screenshots
252: Member Screenshots
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Member Screenshots
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Photo Gallery
259: Downloads
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Statistics
264: News
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Member Screenshots
270: Downloads
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Member Screenshots
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: News Archive
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Statistics
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Home
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Member Screenshots
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Photo Gallery
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Member Screenshots
308: Member Screenshots
309: Community Forums
310: News
311: News Archive
312: Home
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: Downloads
316: Community Forums
317: Home
318: Photo Gallery
319: Statistics
320: Downloads
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Home
325: Photo Gallery
326: Photo Gallery
327: Home
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Member Screenshots
335: Home
336: Downloads
337: Community Forums
338: Statistics
339: Home
340: Community Forums
341: News Archive
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: Home
345: Photo Gallery
346: Member Screenshots
347: Downloads
348: Home
349: Photo Gallery
350: Member Screenshots
351: Downloads
352: Community Forums
353: Statistics
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Downloads
360: Your Account
361: Downloads
362: Community Forums
363: Photo Gallery
364: Downloads
365: Home
366: Your Account
367: Statistics
368: Home
369: Statistics
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Downloads
373: Statistics
374: Photo Gallery
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Downloads
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Home
385: Home
386: Member Screenshots
387: Home
388: Community Forums
389: Member Screenshots
390: Home
391: Home
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Home
395: Photo Gallery
396: Home
397: Home
398: Downloads
399: Community Forums
400: News Archive
401: Home
402: Photo Gallery
403: Home
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Downloads
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Home
411: Home
412: Home
413: Member Screenshots
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: Downloads
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Member Screenshots
425: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:27 pm
Post subject: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello,

Wiml Dirks pointed something out in an email I received some days ago :

Bruce Crompton, who owns a SdKfz 250, a 251 and what is believed to be an original Jagdpanzer 38(t), participated to a reenactment event at Overloon in May 2010.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/sets/72157623957457977/

Some photos of the interior show the marking "Achtung! Panzerjägerkanone 40 - schiessen ohne Mündungsbremse verboten", which translated, means "Beware! Panzerjäger gun 40 - Fire without the muzzle brake is forbidden"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/4615687815/in/set-72157623957457977/

The problem is that German Jagdpanzer 38(t) don't have muzzle brakes, only G-13s have this feature.

Does it mean that the tank is indeed a G-13, or does it rather mean that the interior was restored like a G-13 interior?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I'd say it's a G13, since only G13s have the muzzle brakes, like you say. The German text must have been put on by the Swiss since it's effectively their primary language (whether officially or not).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

On top of that, original Hetzers had KwK 39 guns, G-13s had StuK 40 guns. So even the number referring to the gun tells it could be a G-13.

But I have to say that usually stencils on swiss tanks are written both in german and french.

I just checked my interior pictures from the G-13 in Schaffhausen, and saw no stencils at all.

I would still hesitate to flag this as G-13. Better put a question mark on it.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
WimD.
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 118
Location: The Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- WimD.
Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.


yes, but the information on my website are not 100% reliable..

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

He has done a good job on it but after spending the past two hours going through every image I have of these vehicles I think I can safely say it was originally a G13/G13D/G14...

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all,

I just saw this topic and I might be able to contribute a bit.

I made the pics in the gallery linked in the first post. The marking in question is indeed incorrect for this vehicle. It is an older restoration and I guess that interior photos from an G-13 (possibly from a manual) were used as a reference. According to the Crompton Collection's chief mechanic (who didn't work on the restoration of the Hetzer), some time in the future it is scheduled to have a rebuild which would include a full repaint inside and out along with a full mechanical overhaul. There are several other restorationprojects in the pipeline that come first though, so it might be a while before it's the Hetzers' turn.

That said, this Hetzer is an original 1944 early production vehicle. It was indeed recovered from the Vilseck barracks where it was buried after the war, together with (I think) a Pz IV. It still has battle scars on mainly the right side from small arms fire and shrapnel. It also has most of the features found on early production vehicles (exhaust route, early pattern roadwheels and first pattern drive sprockets).

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
VonForhud
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Why would someone bury a hetzer and a Mark IV? Lack of fuel?

_________________
hvasnakkerduom.blogspo...wagen.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Pzkpfw-e
I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?

No it isn't, but I don't know who the owner is.


- Pzkpfw-e
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.

That would be the most likely scenario I would say. Although it has lots of battle scars I don't think it got a devasting hit.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

The interior is correct for a Hetzer. might have been incorrectly stenciled. guns, muzzle brakes, cupolas and even turrets can be easily changed and should not be used as the only reference for the model of a particular model of tank.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Tobias Haudenschild forwarded me his observations on this tank. I am posting on his behalf:

According to MY knowledge, it has to be a Swiss G-13. Here are my arguments:

The gun as such seems to be a PAK 39. But the horizontal movement of the PAK 39 (in Hetzers) was achieved by a cardan shaft that is completely missing on this particular vehicle. Besides, all handles and mountings for the gun are identical to the G-13's arrangement.

The firing button (on picture 065) was a Swiss modification (in G-13s it was actually red).

The driver's instrument panel is the one used in G-13s. In the Hetzer the display for water temperature was located on the far left of the panel.

A clear identification could be achieved by checking wheter the vehicle has an escape hatch on the floor of the fighting compartment, as only Swiss G-13s had this hatch...

You were actually right that Swiss G-13s were marked both in German and French on the interior. For sure the interior markings shown in the pictures are not of Swiss origin. They might be an invention of the vehicle's owner.

Altogether I have to say that it is a very fine G-13 to Hetzer conversion that features a lot of details that makes it look like an original Hetzer.


Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/

The Vilseck Pzkpfw IV--Restoration(?) Wheatcroft now the tank stands in the IWM Duxford

Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Andreas
Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/
Andreas

This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic , but perhaps it is one of Wheatcrofts' vehicles?

It could very well be that G-13 interior pictures or manuals and even some parts were (incorrectly) used in or as a reference during the restoration, what would explain the presence of some G-13 parts/details. It does not have an escape hatch.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello David

"This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic "........but it looks very (very) similar!!


Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum