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Dontos · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Trevor

Here are somemore shots taken today of the cutaway tank. I found the Drivers escape hatch open. Was able to crawl into the drivers compartment and the turret. The interesting item found was the hull SN stamped into the data plate mount. The SN of the tank was 7693. Not sure why is got re stamped 20.

Regards
Don

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Massimo_Foti

That data plate is italian. It says the tank was revisioned by "Officine Fiore", in Caserta, not that far from Naples. Back in those day the Italian Army's tank school was stationed in Caserta (it's now in Lecce)

Hope it will help

Massimo

Thanks, Massimo - that does help. It has prompted me to research Caserta, and I have put together an entry for the armour school there:

Caserma Ferrari Orsi, Caserta

There is now a link to it from the M47:

Fort Knox Italian M47

Do you know how well concentrated are the places where Italian tanks served in Italy? For example, would it be reasonable to assume that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point (so I can add it to their previous location lists, and maps) or is that unreasonable?

On a different but related note, does anyone know the significance of the metal strips welded diagonally on the front and back of M47 turrets?

See also other M47s:

Preserved M47s

I seem to see them mostly on ex-Italian vehicles, and there are no pictures of them in Hunnicutt. I'm wondering if they may be an Italian feature, and therefore a way of identifying ex-Italian M47s. Does anyone know?

Smashy · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Aug 05, 2010 Posts: 112

Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Do you know how well concentrated are the places where Italian tanks served in Italy? For example, would it be reasonable to assume that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point (so I can add it to their previous location lists, and maps) or is that unreasonable?

I think it's very unlike that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point. Even if a tank was revisioned by a plant in Caserta it doesn't means it served there too.
At firt the M47s were fielded by first line units, facing the north-east border with Jugoslavia and Austria. Later on they were replaced by M60s and Leopard 1s and moved to second line units in southern Italy, like Sicilia, Sardegna and Puglia. There they served for a very long period. In the end some of those units were disbanded, other got Centauro armoured cars instead.

I know for sure "Officine Goriziane" was another plant who revisioned M47s. I believe OTO Melara did that too, but I am not 100% sure.

Massimo

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos

Trevor

Here are somemore shots taken today of the cutaway tank. I found the Drivers escape hatch open. Was able to crawl into the drivers compartment and the turret. The interesting item found was the hull SN stamped into the data plate mount. The SN of the tank was 7693. Not sure why is got re stamped 20.

Don - thanks for that, I'll add the photos asap. I don't understand the situation with the SN. The rare early muzzle brake would imply one of the pilot vehicles so 20 would make sense - not 7693. I'm confused!

- Smashy

Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.

That's interesting - is that from personal knowledge, or a suggestion?

- Massimo_Foti

I think it's very unlike that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point. Even if a tank was revisioned by a plant in Caserta it doesn't means it served there too.
At firt the M47s were fielded by first line units, facing the north-east border with Jugoslavia and Austria. Later on they were replaced by M60s and Leopard 1s and moved to second line units in southern Italy, like Sicilia, Sardegna and Puglia. There they served for a very long period. In the end some of those units were disbanded, other got Centauro armoured cars instead.

I know for sure "Officine Goriziane" was another plant who revisioned M47s. I believe OTO Melara did that too, but I am not 100% sure.

Understood - I guess we need to track down and decode some more upgrade plates.

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

[quote="TrevorLarkum"]

- Dontos

Trevor

- Smashy

Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.

That's interesting - is that from personal knowledge, or a suggestion?

They are, indeed, what we call "driprails" when applied to automobiles. I asked about these once over at Pierantonio Farina's "Ferreamole" website via email.

www.ferreamole.it/imag...m47_05.jpg

Joe_D · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:35 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

The M60A1/A3's had them too, although not near as elaborate, they kept the driver from getting too wet.

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Understood - I guess we need to track down and decode some more upgrade plates.

I think if you dig past messages from the forum you can find something. There are quite a few former italian M47s used as monuments in the USA, and I remember seeing some plates posted here.
I am away from home at the moment, once I will be back I will see if I have something among my pictures. Maybe from the M47 at "Museo dei Carristi" in Roma.

Massimo

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos

Trevor

Here are somemore shots taken today of the cutaway tank. I found the Drivers escape hatch open. Was able to crawl into the drivers compartment and the turret. The interesting item found was the hull SN stamped into the data plate mount. The SN of the tank was 7693. Not sure why is got re stamped 20.

...

Regards
Don

Thanks Don, pictures added:

Unique ID 1324: Cutaway M47

- Doug_Kibbey

- TrevorLarkum

- Smashy

Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.

That's interesting - is that from personal knowledge, or a suggestion?

They are, indeed, what we call "driprails" when applied to automobiles. I asked about these once over at Pierantonio Farina's "Ferreamole" website via email.

www.ferreamole.it/imag...m47_05.jpg

Thanks guys - I hadn't thought of drip rails!

- Massimo_Foti

Understood - I guess we need to track down and decode some more upgrade plates.

I think if you dig past messages from the forum you can find something. There are quite a few former italian M47s used as monuments in the USA, and I remember seeing some plates posted here.

Massimo

A good idea, so I've done just that - and you're right, there are lots of posts on Italian M47s in the USA. Here they are - I'll try to work through them and add entries for these tanks to PreservedTanks.com at some point:

Chiriaco Summit: www.com-central.net/in...3261#93261
Fort Hood: www.com-central.net/in...5122#45122
Killeen, TX: www.com-central.net/in...3774#33774
Millstadt, IL: www.com-central.net/in...1911#91911
Fort Lewis: www.com-central.net/in...0639#80639
Ash Flat, Arkansas: www.com-central.net/in...6108#76108
Lisbon, ND: www.com-central.net/in...3207#73207
Crane Naval Warfare Center: www.com-central.net/in...2079#72079
AAF: www.com-central.net/in...1910#61910
Camp Dodge, Iowa: www.com-central.net/in...7725#57725
Sherpardsville, KY: www.com-central.net/in...6335#56335
Fort Snelling: www.com-central.net/in...4590#54590
Camp Murray, WA: www.com-central.net/in...3462#53462
Onalaska, Wisconsin: www.com-central.net/in...2849#52849
Fort George Meade, MD: www.com-central.net/in...5907#35907

Also Italian M47, Bergen, Germany: www.com-central.net/in...3660#83660

I was just about to update all M47s with drip rails as being ex-Italian (e.g. the Stithton one at FK, and the one at Thun in Switzerland) when I found this:

- worthhaggerton

Hello from Texas,
M47 rain gutters were added to US tanks also. You will see them on NG tanks during the 1960's routs here in the US.

Rain Gutters also show up on French and German M47.

Worth Haggerton

So now I don't know what to think!

Kurt_Laughlin · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 577

Were these all actually Italian Army vehicles or simply overhauled at an Italian factory/depot under a US contract?

KL

L.Delsing · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Feb 10, 2006 Posts: 960

- Dontos

Trevor

Looks good.

BTW: This is the data plate on the rear of M47 (SN3200).

Regards
Don

Hi Trevor,
Is it correct that sn 3200 is unique ID number 1326 at your site? Because it has sn 3400 on your site.

Regards,
Lesley

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

The one in Thun isn't an ex-italian tank. It was evaluated by the Swiss Army in 1952, and lost against the Centurion.

Massimo

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Here is the plate from M47 in Museo Carristi, Roma:

Massimo

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

BTW you can read more about Astra here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._(company)

Massimo

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- L.Delsing

Hi Trevor,
Is it correct that sn 3200 is unique ID number 1326 at your site? Because it has sn 3400 on your site.

Regards,
Lesley

Fixed - thanks.

- Massimo_Foti

The one in Thun isn't an ex-italian tank. It was evaluated by the Swiss Army in 1952, and lost against the Centurion.

Massimo

Understood, updated. Any idea where it came from, i.e. was it supplied from the US? If so, clearly some US M47s had the drip-rails.

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