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Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles & Unk
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:00 pm
Post subject: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles & Unk

Bergepanther - almost certainly long since scrapped



img.photobucket.com/al...anther.jpg

SdKfz 10



img.photobucket.com/al...fz10-1.jpg

img.photobucket.com/al...fz10-2.jpg

SdKfz 234 - not sure if it is the museum's former 234/1 /2 Puma or /3...



img.photobucket.com/al...Kfz234.jpg

SdKfz 250 - not sure if this is the museum's former 250/5, /8 or /9...



img.photobucket.com/al...Kfz250.jpg

A bunch of manufacturer plates follow - need help with model identification...

Adlerwerke



img.photobucket.com/al.../baumgarn/ /US%20Army%20Ordnance%20Museum/Data%20Plates/Adlerwerke.jpg

Auto Union



img.photobucket.com/al...nion-1.jpg



img.photobucket.com/al...Union-2.jp

Borgward



img.photobucket.com/al...rgward.jpg

Bussing NAG



img.photobucket.com/al...gNAG-1.jpg



img.photobucket.com/al...gNAG-2.jpg
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

this will be very short, however all the plate's where you need ID are from car manufacturers

Adler mainly build motrocycles
Auto Union mainly build cars
Borgward was an manufacturer of cars and trucks
Bussing was manufacturer of trucks

And all plates have 1 thing in common, the line "Kettenauflagedruck Beladen"
This line can be translated with ground pressure of track's fully loaded, so they are all of halftracks

The only item I'm not sure is this one, because I can not read it
I think it belonged to some type of truck



Michel

forgot: Bussing-Nag build the SdKfz 251 halftrack type, I will have to check to others

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panamadan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

So, why so much scrapping at Ft. Knox? Lack of room? Korean War? Are there photos of the vehicles before they were scrapped?
Really sad if you think about it. Confused
Dan
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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

Not Fort Knox. Aberdeen Proving Grounds. A lot of stuff got scrapped for scrap metal drives for the Korean War. A lot of WWI and inter-war stuff got scrapped for WWII. See link:

www.criticalpast.com/v...m-Howitzer

Garry

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:14 am
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles & Unk

Dan,
Most of the museum's vehicles were photographed around 1946-1949. Many of these photos made it into the books Tank Data, Tank Data 2, and Tank Data 3. I have posted a bunch of the Inactive pictures at smg.photobucket.com/al.../Inactive/

A number of vehicles were scrapped during the "1952-1953 Salvage Catastrophe" during the Korean War
smg.photobucket.com/al...393683.jpg

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:34 am
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

- Garry_Redmon
Not Fort Knox. Aberdeen Proving Grounds. A lot of stuff got scrapped for scrap metal drives for the Korean War. A lot of WWI and inter-war stuff got scrapped for WWII. See link:

www.criticalpast.com/v...m-Howitzer

Garry


Ironically, I'm fairly certain almost every tank (except for the FT-17s/M1917s at the beginning) shown in that film survived the WWII scrap drive and survived until at least 1946 or so when they were photographed & documented... Several, such as the M1922 Medium A, survive to today...

Neil
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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:15 am
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles & Unk

Oh my! What a loss to history. A Big Bertha too! All those RT17 (Or are they the American version?)
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

the idea of historical value changes from time - to time, depending at the circumstances

However to get back to the plates



The plate belonged to an KMm 11 of 1942
The KMm was another discription of the Krauss-Maffei (leters KM) SdKfz 7 halftrack, the smaller m stands for medium

The engine used for the SdKfz 7 was an Maybach HL 62 TUK 140hp/2600rpm, 6191cc

Michel

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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

Both plates of Auto-Union belonged to Sdkfz 10 halftracks

The engine used for these where Maybach HL 42 TRKM, 4,17 l, 100hp/2800rpm
These numbers can be found at the last 3 lines of the left column



about the plate of the Adler-Werke, I can not read any of the numbers
However Adler build both the SdKfz 10 and the bigger SdKfz 9
So if the numbers on the plates match the ones of the Auto-Union or the FAMO, you will know what vehicle it belonged to
Most likely it will be the SdKfz 10, because it was build in larger numbers then the SdKfz 9 so the chances for the 10 are better Cool

Michel

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

- Michel_Krauss
the idea of historical value changes from time - to time, depending at the circumstances

However to get back to the plates



The plate belonged to an KMm 11 of 1942
The KMm was another discription of the Krauss-Maffei (leters KM) SdKfz 7 halftrack, the smaller m stands for medium



Thanks Michel, the museum had a Sd.Kfz. 7/6, presumed destroyed.

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

- Michel_Krauss
Both plates of Auto-Union belonged to Sdkfz 10 halftracks

The engine used for these where Maybach HL 42 TRKM, 4,17 l, 100hp/2800rpm
These numbers can be found at the last 3 lines of the left column



about the plate of the Adler-Werke, I can not read any of the numbers
However Adler build both the SdKfz 10 and the bigger SdKfz 9
So if the numbers on the plates match the ones of the Auto-Union or the FAMO, you will know what vehicle it belonged to
Most likely it will be the SdKfz 10, because it was build in larger numbers then the SdKfz 9 so the chances for the 10 are better Cool

Michel


Actually, the museum had 3-6 SdKfz 9s, and just one SdKfz 10 (still surviving), so... The 9s were the following:

Sd.Kfz. 9? 18-ton ("15-ton") (may have been one or two more examples)
smg.photobucket.com/al...CV70-c.jpg

Sd.Kfz. 9/1 18-ton Half-Track Prime Mover with crane (may have been an additional one)
smg.photobucket.com/al...MCV146.jpg

Sd.Kfz. 9/2 Half-Track Prime Mover w/ 10-ton Crane
smg.photobucket.com/al...MCV164.jpg

And here's the surviving Sd.Kfz. 10
smg.photobucket.com/al...dKfz%2010/

Neil
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

well I can not tell from the plate which plate would have belonged to which type of SdKfz 9

The only indicator for that would be the line - Nutzlast - or load capacity at the FAMO plate
Because of the heavy stucture of the crane mounted on top of the chassis, the load capacity would lower then of the standard cargo deck
If you would have 3 different loads, you could make an educated guess which plate belonged to which type of SdKfz 9

To get back to the plate of Adler-Werke
I have been modifying it an little at photoshop and I could read the first line of - Typ u. Baujahr -
It is telling D7P, so it was also an SdKfz 250 serie halftrack

Michel

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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles &

to get back to the plate of Borgward, this is more interresting then it first appeared



at the first line of - Typ u. Baujahr - it is telling KM m11 1942

From the info I could find, and that are various sources, this would make it an Krauss-Maffei vehicle

Because according those various sources, Borgward would have used HL m11 for his plates of the SdKfz 7

So some one made an mistake with punching the letters or more likely, the sources are wrong Rolling Eyes

Michel

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Neil_Baumgardner
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Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: Ordnance Museum Data Plates #7: Other German vehicles & Unk

FYI, here are the Fahrgestall Numbers I was able to pull off the plates by increasing the size of the original images (Photobucket shrunk them some).

Bergepanther 175662
SdKfz 10 701602
SdKfz 234 5227
SdKfz 250 204820

Adlerwerke 20?320
Auto Union 543874
Auto Union ?40612
Borgward 142341
Bussing NAG 51397
Bussing NAG 6101

Neil
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