±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 761
Total: 761
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Downloads
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Member Screenshots
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Your Account
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Photo Gallery
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: News Archive
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Photo Gallery
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: CPGlang
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Photo Gallery
76: Home
77: CPGlang
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Home
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: CPGlang
88: Your Account
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: CPGlang
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Member Screenshots
113: Photo Gallery
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Home
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Home
126: Downloads
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Statistics
144: Community Forums
145: Downloads
146: Photo Gallery
147: Home
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Home
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: News Archive
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: CPGlang
168: Community Forums
169: News Archive
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Home
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Photo Gallery
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: CPGlang
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Your Account
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Downloads
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Downloads
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Downloads
231: Photo Gallery
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: CPGlang
240: Your Account
241: News Archive
242: Photo Gallery
243: Home
244: Home
245: Home
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Statistics
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Downloads
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Your Account
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Photo Gallery
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Home
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Contact
291: Photo Gallery
292: Photo Gallery
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Photo Gallery
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Your Account
306: Photo Gallery
307: Home
308: Your Account
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Home
317: Home
318: CPGlang
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Photo Gallery
333: Downloads
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: CPGlang
344: Photo Gallery
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Downloads
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Downloads
353: Community Forums
354: Downloads
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Home
358: Downloads
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Home
362: Member Screenshots
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Home
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: CPGlang
381: Community Forums
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Downloads
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Downloads
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Member Screenshots
400: Photo Gallery
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Member Screenshots
406: Community Forums
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Home
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Home
417: Photo Gallery
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Member Screenshots
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Member Screenshots
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Downloads
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Photo Gallery
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Photo Gallery
448: Community Forums
449: CPGlang
450: Downloads
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Contact
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Downloads
474: Photo Gallery
475: Downloads
476: Community Forums
477: Photo Gallery
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: Community Forums
486: Home
487: Your Account
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Photo Gallery
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Photo Gallery
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Photo Gallery
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: CPGlang
528: CPGlang
529: CPGlang
530: Home
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Community Forums
536: Photo Gallery
537: Photo Gallery
538: Photo Gallery
539: Downloads
540: Downloads
541: Community Forums
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: Photo Gallery
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Photo Gallery
558: Downloads
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Your Account
565: Photo Gallery
566: Your Account
567: Home
568: Member Screenshots
569: Community Forums
570: Photo Gallery
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Downloads
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Photo Gallery
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Downloads
590: Community Forums
591: Downloads
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Photo Gallery
597: Photo Gallery
598: Community Forums
599: Downloads
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Home
605: Photo Gallery
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Downloads
609: Community Forums
610: Home
611: Photo Gallery
612: Community Forums
613: Photo Gallery
614: Home
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Photo Gallery
620: Home
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Photo Gallery
624: Community Forums
625: Member Screenshots
626: CPGlang
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Downloads
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Home
633: CPGlang
634: Community Forums
635: Photo Gallery
636: Community Forums
637: Your Account
638: Photo Gallery
639: Photo Gallery
640: Community Forums
641: Downloads
642: Community Forums
643: Photo Gallery
644: Community Forums
645: Home
646: Photo Gallery
647: Photo Gallery
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Photo Gallery
651: Downloads
652: Downloads
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Photo Gallery
656: Community Forums
657: Photo Gallery
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Photo Gallery
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Photo Gallery
671: News
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Home
678: Home
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Photo Gallery
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Photo Gallery
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Home
697: Community Forums
698: Downloads
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Photo Gallery
707: Downloads
708: Downloads
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Photo Gallery
712: Downloads
713: Member Screenshots
714: Photo Gallery
715: Community Forums
716: Photo Gallery
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Downloads
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Photo Gallery
725: Photo Gallery
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Home
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Downloads
735: Home
736: Community Forums
737: Photo Gallery
738: Community Forums
739: Community Forums
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Downloads
744: Community Forums
745: Your Account
746: Community Forums
747: Downloads
748: Member Screenshots
749: Community Forums
750: Home
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: CPGlang
754: Community Forums
755: Community Forums
756: Home
757: CPGlang
758: Community Forums
759: Downloads
760: Community Forums
761: Statistics

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:19 am
Post subject: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I was at the Washington Armor Club (modelers) meeting yesterday and mentioned the M5 Stuart wreck at the Patuxent Wildlife Research Refuge (which was formerly a Fort Meade target range) - when one of the guys there mentioned that there were also four British Crusader wrecks located there.

Accordingly, Steve Carter just provided the below pictures. Can anyone tell that these are Crusaders? Its close enough that I'm tempted to make a trip sometime soon...

I cant tell if these are the same or different ones. The second one looks to be upside down? Isnt that a Christie suspension arm in the foreground?





Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

The two photos don't show the same tank hull, but the two are upside down. f you closely compare the 2 hulls, they are very similar but have some differences. I can't tell for sure if these are Crusaders or not..
(And there is a man on the right side of the 1st photo, quite well hidden..)

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
fitzday
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

I think those are the same hull, just different angles. If you look close the same busted up second roadwheel is apparent in each picture. And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. If I'm not mistaken, Crusaders had 5 didn't they? Anybody have any idea what Crusaders would be doing in MD?
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Yep, the Crusader was the first British "Christie Cruiser" to have five roadwheels.

I'm not all that surprised there are/were Crusaders in Maryland, but a little surprised they were at Fort Meade rather than APG. I highly suspect they were Reverse Lend-Lease...

The Ordnance Museum already has one Crusader Mk III, and had a Crusader Mk IICS (close support variant) at one point... But I dont have any records for another 3 missing Crusaders... Its possible that Jarret didnt acquire these for the museum since he already had two and therefore they went straight to the ranges at Meade.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

BTW, Bob, I wont be able to make it up for your tour this weekend as I have friends in town - but I think perhaps we should plan on a huntin' trip to Laurel sometime in the near future Wink

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
tankbarrell
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

[quote="fitzday"]I think those are the same hull, just different angles.

I agree with that.

And it looks like there are 5 torsion bars on each side. quote]

They are not torsion bars. Christie suspension used large springs between the inner and outer hulls.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:50 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD?

Joe DeMarco sent me these pictures yesterday - I think this fairly concretely answers the question...





He says there were five Crusaders at the research refuge, but warned that they warn you to stay on the trails & sign a waiver lest you step on some unexploded ordnance Surprised

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

SALVAGE!!!

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

Joe said he told Charles Lemmons with the Patton Museum about them some years ago. Joe thought there was enough to probably put together one Crusader. He also said that its possible they've already been moved by one of the "remediation teams."

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
longo213
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 16, 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

I don't really like to open a two years old thread but anytime I'm listing thru Surviving Cruiser tank list I get really curious what happened to those five Crusaders. Any news from Patton museum about them?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:15 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

No Crusaders here. With the armor element moving, its very doubtful any effort has been or will be made.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
longo213
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 16, 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

It would be really sad if they ended up in scrap...
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

They will most likely continue to sit and decay... Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

- Neil_Baumgardner
Removing them - for restoration or scrapping - would require some effort by someone..


Who should do the effort?

I would be ready to come in the US and cut down some trees to remove them from there !!!

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Crusader wrecks in Laurel MD (pics included)

You'd need lots of government approvals, money, equipment, etc. They're currently on old target ranges, with potentially unexploded ordnance. Needless to say they advise you stay on the trails - which are presumably clear of any UXO

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum