±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 268
Total: 268
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Home
03: Home
04: Home
05: Home
06: Photo Gallery
07: Photo Gallery
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Downloads
12: Downloads
13: Home
14: Downloads
15: Downloads
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Downloads
24: Downloads
25: Home
26: Member Screenshots
27: Downloads
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: CPGlang
36: Member Screenshots
37: Home
38: Home
39: Home
40: Photo Gallery
41: Home
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Downloads
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: CPGlang
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: News
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Photo Gallery
61: Home
62: Home
63: CPGlang
64: Home
65: Member Screenshots
66: Community Forums
67: CPGlang
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Downloads
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Your Account
79: Community Forums
80: Downloads
81: Community Forums
82: CPGlang
83: Community Forums
84: CPGlang
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Member Screenshots
93: Downloads
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Home
100: News
101: Downloads
102: Home
103: Photo Gallery
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: CPGlang
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Member Screenshots
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Treasury
124: CPGlang
125: Home
126: CPGlang
127: Downloads
128: Downloads
129: Downloads
130: Home
131: CPGlang
132: Home
133: Home
134: Downloads
135: Home
136: Treasury
137: CPGlang
138: Downloads
139: Community Forums
140: Downloads
141: Community Forums
142: Downloads
143: Downloads
144: CPGlang
145: Home
146: Home
147: Photo Gallery
148: Downloads
149: CPGlang
150: CPGlang
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Community Forums
155: News Archive
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Downloads
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Member Screenshots
167: Home
168: CPGlang
169: CPGlang
170: Photo Gallery
171: Downloads
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: CPGlang
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Photo Gallery
183: Home
184: CPGlang
185: CPGlang
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Home
189: News
190: Downloads
191: CPGlang
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Member Screenshots
196: CPGlang
197: Member Screenshots
198: CPGlang
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: CPGlang
202: Downloads
203: Downloads
204: Home
205: CPGlang
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Home
213: CPGlang
214: Photo Gallery
215: News Archive
216: Home
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Downloads
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: CPGlang
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Photo Gallery
230: Downloads
231: Community Forums
232: Downloads
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Member Screenshots
240: Community Forums
241: Downloads
242: Downloads
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Member Screenshots
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Downloads
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Downloads
254: Downloads
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Home
259: Photo Gallery
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Downloads
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
THE MOVE.....(update)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:31 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Vivman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Dontos
Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don


STORED! NOT DISPLAYED? Are any of the multitude of tanks being sent to Benning going to be viewable by the public? If not, that would be a crime! Sorry if this has been discussed before, I am coming late to the conversation, but why are they moving everything from Knox to Benning? Will there be anything left at Knox?

Thanks,

Tony
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:05 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Vivman
- Dontos
Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don


STORED! NOT DISPLAYED? Are any of the multitude of tanks being sent to Benning going to be viewable by the public? If not, that would be a crime! Sorry if this has been discussed before, I am coming late to the conversation, but why are they moving everything from Knox to Benning? Will there be anything left at Knox?

Thanks,

Tony


Vivman,

Here's a thread to bring you up to speed. Several pages, should answer most of your questions. As the Armor School is moving, so goes the museum (apart from the Patton artifacts).

Same is happening with the APG Ordnance School from Aberdeen to Ft. Lee.

www.com-central.net/in...mp;t=12224
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Vivman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Doug_Kibbey
- Vivman
- Dontos
Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don


STORED! NOT DISPLAYED? Are any of the multitude of tanks being sent to Benning going to be viewable by the public? If not, that would be a crime! Sorry if this has been discussed before, I am coming late to the conversation, but why are they moving everything from Knox to Benning? Will there be anything left at Knox?

Thanks,

Tony


Vivman,

Here's a thread to bring you up to speed. Several pages, should answer most of your questions. As the Armor School is moving, so goes the museum (apart from the Patton artifacts).

Same is happening with the APG Ordnance School from Aberdeen to Ft. Lee.

www.com-central.net/in...mp;t=12224


Thank you, Doug!
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:39 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

3 Nov update:

Yesterday while in RMP,.....This is to be a 10-20 vehicle convoy in the next two days which will deposit the tanks 'Sand Hill' (Ft Benning)

The process is a bit interesting. The manifested vehicles are lined up, then as trucks arrive, they are hoisted into the air (the tanks...), before the trucks roll under the tank, its weight is verified by a scale in the crane.

When verified based off of the contracted weight, the truck rolls under the tank, it is lowered then secured to the trailer.











The funny thing is the S tank exceeded the 'contracted' weight by 10 tons (!?) She was lowered and put on 'hold' the paperwork will have to be redone to move her.

Instead, the Centurion was hoisted onto a truck.

More to follow
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:09 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Actually, the Centurion was also too heavy. They finally loaded the Type 69 and Leopard I prototype. They are going to return with bigger trucks (8-axle) and new permits.

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:04 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

How do you miscalculate the weight of a known vehicle by 10 tons??? If it was a typo in the contracting documents someone should have caught it by looking at standard references. If anything I could have expected the actual weight to be less than published data (If published data is loaded with equipment, fuel and ammo and the museum vehicle is empty) Are there that many layers of paint on it? Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
vagabond
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 05, 2009
Posts: 1388
Location: Constantly moving across US
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:23 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

It's because on my backstage tour with Dontos, I snuck off and filled the tanks with gold bullion!!! After the shipment to GA we open them up and finance the damn museum!!

Attempted levity!
Back to top
View user's profile
JWB2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:44 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- vagabond
It's because on my backstage tour with Dontos, I snuck off and filled the tanks with gold bullion!!! After the shipment to GA we open them up and finance the damn museum!!

Attempted levity!


Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:01 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

The base reference for weight estimation was 'Janes'. I guess the published weight was an earlier model, or something. I don't know

Bob: Would 'lead based' paint be heavier...??

The S Tank is loaded as it arrived with all the associated additional equipment to including the digging spade & 'RPG screen'. possibly this could account for the difference..??

oh we can't forget a family of raccoons being only addition... (!?)

(VBs stash was removed to fund the new Vine Grove Volunteer Armor Veterans Museum....!!?? ha ha ha)

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

When I delivered that vehicle, I found the weight in Janes to be way off, as usual, It was somewhere around 90,000+ lbs, Much heavier than most books list it at.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:51 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Apparently when the contractor asked for vehicle weights, they were given standard battle weights. When they asked for actual weights, they were informed that we don't have scales to weigh these things. So instead of bringing in a crane or portable scales to get accurate weights, to save money they guestimated what the weight would be without fuel and ammo. I guess they underestimated trying to pocket some extra cash by using smaller trucks and now will have to use bigger trucks they should have brought to begin with. The lowest bidder is not always the best bidder.

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Garry_Redmon
The lowest bidder is not always the best bidder.


Here is one of my favorite quotes on this topic:

Fixed-price contracts may involve significant risk in estimating the cost prior to doing any work. A competent vendor will include this risk in the bid. A vendor that does not understand the complexity of the problem is
likely to underbid. The process of selecting a vendor for a fixed-price contract has a tendency to favor the most optimistic - or the most desperate - vendor. Consequently, the vendor least likely to understand the project's complexity is likely to be selected. Thus, fixed-price contracts tend to select the vendor most likely to get in trouble.
-- Tom Poppendieck
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Massimo,

this is far the best demonstration I've read for months..

IIRC, this is what is called a "market failure", which is "a concept within economic theory wherein the allocation of goods and services by a free market is not efficient."

Market failures can be viewed as scenarios where individuals' pursuit of pure self-interest leads to results that are not efficient.

(source : Wikipedia)

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:39 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- the_shadock
Massimo,

this is far the best demonstration I've read for months..

IIRC, this is what is called a "market failure", which is "a concept within economic theory wherein the allocation of goods and services by a free market is not efficient."

Market failures can be viewed as scenarios where individuals' pursuit of pure self-interest leads to results that are not efficient.


(source : Wikipedia)

P-O


Interestingly, that illustration also describes the entire move of this collection from Knox to Benning. OTOH, it's not exactly a "free market" scenario. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum