±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 296
Total: 296
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Home
04: Photo Gallery
05: Home
06: Home
07: Member Screenshots
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Your Account
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Home
17: Home
18: Home
19: Downloads
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Home
24: Home
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Community Forums
43: Member Screenshots
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Member Screenshots
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Home
51: Home
52: Home
53: Home
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Home
63: Home
64: Home
65: Home
66: Home
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Photo Gallery
71: Home
72: Member Screenshots
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Member Screenshots
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Photo Gallery
92: Home
93: Member Screenshots
94: Statistics
95: Home
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Downloads
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Home
106: Statistics
107: Member Screenshots
108: Home
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Member Screenshots
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Home
124: Member Screenshots
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Home
129: Statistics
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: News Archive
133: Member Screenshots
134: Downloads
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Home
138: Photo Gallery
139: Home
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Home
144: Member Screenshots
145: Home
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Your Account
150: Home
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Home
155: Photo Gallery
156: Home
157: Home
158: Home
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Member Screenshots
166: Home
167: Downloads
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Your Account
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Your Account
182: Home
183: Home
184: Downloads
185: Community Forums
186: Member Screenshots
187: Home
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: News Archive
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Home
204: Supporters
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: News
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Home
214: Member Screenshots
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Home
218: Member Screenshots
219: Home
220: Treasury
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Home
225: Home
226: Your Account
227: News Archive
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Home
239: Home
240: Home
241: Photo Gallery
242: Photo Gallery
243: Home
244: Home
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Home
249: News Archive
250: Photo Gallery
251: Your Account
252: Home
253: Home
254: Your Account
255: Home
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Home
260: Home
261: Home
262: Home
263: Downloads
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Home
268: Home
269: Home
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Home
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: News Archive
283: Downloads
284: Member Screenshots
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Downloads
288: Home
289: News Archive
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Member Screenshots
293: Your Account
294: Community Forums
295: Downloads
296: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:03 am
Post subject: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Maybe just a little... But a 1/3 reduction in estimated cost, now to come from private funds rather than public... And a slightly smaller footprint.

According to the changedetection.com log 68.166.223.4/comparecache.html of www.armorcavalrymuseum.../Plan.html the following has changed:

Dimensions:
Was - 106,000 Sq. Ft. plus expansion and separate Maintenance Facility
Now - ~100,000 Sq. Ft.

Estimated Cost:
Was - $75,000,000
Now - $50,000,000

Source of Funds:
Was - Public Funds
Now - Private Funds (hmm... wonder what happened to the FY11 MILCON?)

This was the plan back in March
www.ledger-enquirer.co...useum.html

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Shocked. Just shocked.

I seem to recall that I wasn't the only one here who was skeptical about their plans, some time back. I'm sad to discover that we were right. I recognize that I'm very cynical about stuff like this, but I always hold onto a glimmer of hope that I might be wrong.

Wait for it. There will be more cuts, the schedule with slip to the right...and what eventually is built will be a far cry from what was advertised. And more vehicles will be left in storage, probably in less desirable conditions than they were in previously. Typical empire-building and "my toys" behavior from otherwise grown-up government functionaries.

Chuck

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled

I shocked, I tell you....shocked!.

We're going to be relying on members' photographic records for some time to come.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Was there any point to this move? Other than to burn up tax dollars...

"And more vehicles will be left in storage, probably in less desirable conditions than they were in previously."
Is this possible? Leaving then in a field with open hatches for 65 years is pretty bad.


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

- armyjunk2
Was there any point to this move? Other than to burn up tax dollars...

The schools were moved under BRAC. Ownership of the school artifacts (meaning, their museums) follow the school, and the schools will not be denied their toys, even if they aren't in a position to share with the other children.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

i knew that but still a waste, they have money to burn....
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled

Rolling Eyes well, old and historical artifacts are not that precious... we could still find another survivor elsewhere for a particular model, even if the tank itself is unique.

Let's say, for example, there are many other T6 Shermans with spigot mortars in swamps and bogs in Russia...

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled

...and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a T5, Phase I anymore.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Most of you know how I feel, so I won't go into a heated venting session, since at this point it would serve no purpose.

The truth is nobody 'in a position to do anything' really cares. After all there really is no Armor Center anymore. The Senior officials sold out for the 'party line' long ago to ensure promotion. No real pride, just 'lipservice'.....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

- armyjunk2
Was there any point to this move? Other than to burn up tax dollars...

"And more vehicles will be left in storage, probably in less desirable conditions than they were in previously."
Is this possible? Leaving then in a field with open hatches for 65 years is pretty bad.


Ahem.

"Typical empire-building and "my toys" behavior from otherwise grown-up government functionaries."

Government in the US is rapidly becoming so venal and self-serving as to be functionally unrecognizable from communist and socialist autocracies. More than ever, government is being used to fulfill the petty ambitions and tyrant-fantasies of senior government employees. The old "government as public service" paradigm has faded, and "position as a means of gaining unrestrained bureaucratic power" has become the norm at every level from local to Federal.

The point of my cynical rant is the the vehicles were moved because some government officials perceived a means by which they could retain or gain additional power (usually in the form of additional money) by moving them. Patronage is also a powerful force, and someone had to be paid to move them, to construct the new location (such as it is), etc. The vehicles are moving because someone saw a personal benefit and could wrap it in an official justification.

Evidence? How about the fact that the vehicles are moving from an existing facility (with a local support structure and volunteer curators) to a new location that has no existing facility to accommodate the artifacts. This, instead of waiting for the new facility to be constructed and ready. Thus the artifacts are effectively held as hostages used to negotiate the release of additional funds for construction at the new location. And if they deteriorate in the time needed to obtain funds and complete construction? Well, these are just the unavoidable casualties of self-advancement in the 'service' of the US government.

/rant

Chuck

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

I have seen the storage lot at Sand Hill, Fort Benning,

It is not good, in fact down right disheartening. I hope my contact can alleviate a little of the the deterioration of the AFVs there. Really sad state of affairs.

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:19 am
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

whole deal S**KS for both the museums, somebody needs to follow the money trail here and find out whose pockets got lined. never made it to Knox, but I got to Aberdeen about 10 times and I got my slides and my memories

_________________
The only good skwerril is a dead un
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:27 am
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

- piney
whole deal S**KS for both the museums, somebody needs to follow the money trail here and find out whose pockets got lined. never made it to Knox, but I got to Aberdeen about 10 times and I got my slides and my memories


And you've got this great community of people who collectively have been pretty much everywhere and are demonstrably good about sharing. It's what this forum is all about, when you get right down to it.

Might not be the same thing as crawling all over a particular exhibit yourself, but it's very likely that someone here with the same perspective has. And more than likely, he took pictures. I've never seen anyone denied use of pictures among this community when someone first asked.

With the passing of these two museums into dormancy, the best resource we now have for recent info regarding vehicles in these collections is each other. That's what we're all about, anyway.


<Moderator and forum advocate mode off>
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:33 am
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Unfortunately I think the real casualties of this all this, besides the vehicles are the generations of veterans & their families.

On a daily basis, visitors include the aging veterans who stop to experience perhaps that one last time, a glimpse of their past. They openly share those experiences with family who can't really appreciate the storys, but when visiting the museum, they see the vehicle and installation where 'Dad,'Grand Pa', or 'Great Grand Pa' spent his youth to prepare before going off to Europe or Asia.

The sight of the period vehicles, being able to touch them, helps to bring it all back.

I've seen & heard many of those 'rememberances' and each one helps to reenforce why I enjoy being a volunteer. Its not about me, but those who served long before me.

Hopefully the new facility will become a reality to continue to 'preserve & tell the story'.

Personally I don't know of any veteran tankers who in their right mind would ever consider visiting Ft Benning (!?) to experience their Armor History past because there is no association to that installation.

The 'new' generation of tankers will establish that with their service but its ashame that all this BRAC stuff will be lost upon the aging vets who have no association to Ft Benning,.....AND I AM ONE OF THEM.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled

What Don said.

The collection is important, we all appreciate it. However, for actual U.S. Armor veterans, the place is at least as, if not more, important to the legacy of their memories of service in that branch.

I do not picture any Armor veterans going to Ft. Benning to get in touch with their history, unless that history includes a past assignment there.

It's true the schools and the collections do not exist for the sole purpose of providing venues for reminiscences of old soldiers, but those facilities with extensive histories and and almost exclusive link to a particular branch (say a Ft. Sill to Arty, by way of example) not to mention an already existing infrastructure for display and cadre of dedicated personnel who have and continue to be willing to perform steady and dedicated service to preserving the past should not be sacrificed so readily in the name of power or precedence. To do so is an enormous dis-service to the tradition and legacy of service that they exist to preserve.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum