±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 412
Total: 412
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Member Screenshots
03: News Archive
04: Your Account
05: News Archive
06: News Archive
07: Downloads
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Member Screenshots
12: Home
13: News Archive
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Member Screenshots
18: Downloads
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: News Archive
23: Home
24: Home
25: Member Screenshots
26: Member Screenshots
27: Member Screenshots
28: Home
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Member Screenshots
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Member Screenshots
37: Downloads
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Member Screenshots
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Member Screenshots
47: Downloads
48: Member Screenshots
49: Home
50: Photo Gallery
51: Member Screenshots
52: Photo Gallery
53: Downloads
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Downloads
59: Member Screenshots
60: Member Screenshots
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Photo Gallery
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Downloads
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Member Screenshots
79: Statistics
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Member Screenshots
84: News Archive
85: Treasury
86: Community Forums
87: News Archive
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: News Archive
91: Home
92: Home
93: Photo Gallery
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Member Screenshots
97: Photo Gallery
98: Home
99: Home
100: Member Screenshots
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Downloads
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Member Screenshots
107: Home
108: Home
109: Downloads
110: Member Screenshots
111: Member Screenshots
112: Home
113: Home
114: News Archive
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Home
120: Member Screenshots
121: Community Forums
122: Member Screenshots
123: News Archive
124: Member Screenshots
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Home
128: Downloads
129: Member Screenshots
130: Member Screenshots
131: Downloads
132: Statistics
133: News Archive
134: News Archive
135: Community Forums
136: Member Screenshots
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Member Screenshots
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Photo Gallery
143: News Archive
144: Community Forums
145: Member Screenshots
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Downloads
149: News Archive
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Home
155: Member Screenshots
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: News Archive
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Home
164: Member Screenshots
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: Community Forums
171: Member Screenshots
172: Contact
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Home
186: Member Screenshots
187: Community Forums
188: Member Screenshots
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: News Archive
193: Home
194: News Archive
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Your Account
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Home
206: News Archive
207: Member Screenshots
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Member Screenshots
212: Home
213: Contact
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: News Archive
218: Member Screenshots
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Member Screenshots
223: Member Screenshots
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Member Screenshots
231: Member Screenshots
232: Community Forums
233: Member Screenshots
234: Photo Gallery
235: Photo Gallery
236: Downloads
237: Member Screenshots
238: Home
239: News Archive
240: News Archive
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: News Archive
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: News Archive
250: Home
251: Home
252: News Archive
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Tell a Friend
257: News Archive
258: Home
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Member Screenshots
263: News Archive
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Member Screenshots
272: Statistics
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Member Screenshots
276: Community Forums
277: Member Screenshots
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Downloads
282: Home
283: Member Screenshots
284: Community Forums
285: News Archive
286: LinkToUs
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: News Archive
292: Member Screenshots
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: News
298: Member Screenshots
299: Member Screenshots
300: Community Forums
301: Your Account
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Member Screenshots
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Home
309: News Archive
310: Member Screenshots
311: Member Screenshots
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: News Archive
320: Home
321: News Archive
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Downloads
326: Home
327: Member Screenshots
328: Community Forums
329: News Archive
330: Home
331: Downloads
332: Member Screenshots
333: Member Screenshots
334: Member Screenshots
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Downloads
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: News Archive
345: Member Screenshots
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Downloads
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Downloads
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Home
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Downloads
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: Member Screenshots
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Home
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Downloads
380: Photo Gallery
381: Contact
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Member Screenshots
389: Search
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Downloads
393: Home
394: Photo Gallery
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: LinkToUs
408: Member Screenshots
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Member Screenshots
412: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
THE MOVE.....(update)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:31 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Vivman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Dontos
Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don


STORED! NOT DISPLAYED? Are any of the multitude of tanks being sent to Benning going to be viewable by the public? If not, that would be a crime! Sorry if this has been discussed before, I am coming late to the conversation, but why are they moving everything from Knox to Benning? Will there be anything left at Knox?

Thanks,

Tony
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:05 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Vivman
- Dontos
Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don


STORED! NOT DISPLAYED? Are any of the multitude of tanks being sent to Benning going to be viewable by the public? If not, that would be a crime! Sorry if this has been discussed before, I am coming late to the conversation, but why are they moving everything from Knox to Benning? Will there be anything left at Knox?

Thanks,

Tony


Vivman,

Here's a thread to bring you up to speed. Several pages, should answer most of your questions. As the Armor School is moving, so goes the museum (apart from the Patton artifacts).

Same is happening with the APG Ordnance School from Aberdeen to Ft. Lee.

www.com-central.net/in...mp;t=12224
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Vivman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Doug_Kibbey
- Vivman
- Dontos
Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don


STORED! NOT DISPLAYED? Are any of the multitude of tanks being sent to Benning going to be viewable by the public? If not, that would be a crime! Sorry if this has been discussed before, I am coming late to the conversation, but why are they moving everything from Knox to Benning? Will there be anything left at Knox?

Thanks,

Tony


Vivman,

Here's a thread to bring you up to speed. Several pages, should answer most of your questions. As the Armor School is moving, so goes the museum (apart from the Patton artifacts).

Same is happening with the APG Ordnance School from Aberdeen to Ft. Lee.

www.com-central.net/in...mp;t=12224


Thank you, Doug!
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:39 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

3 Nov update:

Yesterday while in RMP,.....This is to be a 10-20 vehicle convoy in the next two days which will deposit the tanks 'Sand Hill' (Ft Benning)

The process is a bit interesting. The manifested vehicles are lined up, then as trucks arrive, they are hoisted into the air (the tanks...), before the trucks roll under the tank, its weight is verified by a scale in the crane.

When verified based off of the contracted weight, the truck rolls under the tank, it is lowered then secured to the trailer.











The funny thing is the S tank exceeded the 'contracted' weight by 10 tons (!?) She was lowered and put on 'hold' the paperwork will have to be redone to move her.

Instead, the Centurion was hoisted onto a truck.

More to follow
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:09 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Actually, the Centurion was also too heavy. They finally loaded the Type 69 and Leopard I prototype. They are going to return with bigger trucks (8-axle) and new permits.

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:04 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

How do you miscalculate the weight of a known vehicle by 10 tons??? If it was a typo in the contracting documents someone should have caught it by looking at standard references. If anything I could have expected the actual weight to be less than published data (If published data is loaded with equipment, fuel and ammo and the museum vehicle is empty) Are there that many layers of paint on it? Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
vagabond
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 05, 2009
Posts: 1388
Location: Constantly moving across US
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:23 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

It's because on my backstage tour with Dontos, I snuck off and filled the tanks with gold bullion!!! After the shipment to GA we open them up and finance the damn museum!!

Attempted levity!
Back to top
View user's profile
JWB2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:44 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- vagabond
It's because on my backstage tour with Dontos, I snuck off and filled the tanks with gold bullion!!! After the shipment to GA we open them up and finance the damn museum!!

Attempted levity!


Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:01 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

The base reference for weight estimation was 'Janes'. I guess the published weight was an earlier model, or something. I don't know

Bob: Would 'lead based' paint be heavier...??

The S Tank is loaded as it arrived with all the associated additional equipment to including the digging spade & 'RPG screen'. possibly this could account for the difference..??

oh we can't forget a family of raccoons being only addition... (!?)

(VBs stash was removed to fund the new Vine Grove Volunteer Armor Veterans Museum....!!?? ha ha ha)

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

When I delivered that vehicle, I found the weight in Janes to be way off, as usual, It was somewhere around 90,000+ lbs, Much heavier than most books list it at.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Garry_Redmon
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 398
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:51 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Apparently when the contractor asked for vehicle weights, they were given standard battle weights. When they asked for actual weights, they were informed that we don't have scales to weigh these things. So instead of bringing in a crane or portable scales to get accurate weights, to save money they guestimated what the weight would be without fuel and ammo. I guess they underestimated trying to pocket some extra cash by using smaller trucks and now will have to use bigger trucks they should have brought to begin with. The lowest bidder is not always the best bidder.

_________________
armorfortheages.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Garry_Redmon
The lowest bidder is not always the best bidder.


Here is one of my favorite quotes on this topic:

Fixed-price contracts may involve significant risk in estimating the cost prior to doing any work. A competent vendor will include this risk in the bid. A vendor that does not understand the complexity of the problem is
likely to underbid. The process of selecting a vendor for a fixed-price contract has a tendency to favor the most optimistic - or the most desperate - vendor. Consequently, the vendor least likely to understand the project's complexity is likely to be selected. Thus, fixed-price contracts tend to select the vendor most likely to get in trouble.
-- Tom Poppendieck
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Massimo,

this is far the best demonstration I've read for months..

IIRC, this is what is called a "market failure", which is "a concept within economic theory wherein the allocation of goods and services by a free market is not efficient."

Market failures can be viewed as scenarios where individuals' pursuit of pure self-interest leads to results that are not efficient.

(source : Wikipedia)

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:39 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- the_shadock
Massimo,

this is far the best demonstration I've read for months..

IIRC, this is what is called a "market failure", which is "a concept within economic theory wherein the allocation of goods and services by a free market is not efficient."

Market failures can be viewed as scenarios where individuals' pursuit of pure self-interest leads to results that are not efficient.


(source : Wikipedia)

P-O


Interestingly, that illustration also describes the entire move of this collection from Knox to Benning. OTOH, it's not exactly a "free market" scenario. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum