±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 920
Total: 920
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Photo Gallery
03: Downloads
04: Downloads
05: Downloads
06: News Archive
07: Home
08: Home
09: Downloads
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Member Screenshots
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Downloads
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Photo Gallery
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Member Screenshots
27: Downloads
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: News
35: Home
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Downloads
52: Downloads
53: Downloads
54: Downloads
55: Downloads
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Your Account
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: Community Forums
62: Member Screenshots
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Home
71: Home
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Home
81: Downloads
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Downloads
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Home
92: Home
93: Home
94: Photo Gallery
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Downloads
100: Home
101: Photo Gallery
102: Your Account
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: News
119: Community Forums
120: Member Screenshots
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Downloads
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Downloads
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: News Archive
131: Home
132: News
133: Community Forums
134: News Archive
135: Home
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Downloads
144: Downloads
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Member Screenshots
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Photo Gallery
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Member Screenshots
191: Community Forums
192: Downloads
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Member Screenshots
198: Home
199: Downloads
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Home
203: Photo Gallery
204: Home
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Downloads
214: Downloads
215: Home
216: Home
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Downloads
222: Home
223: Home
224: Downloads
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Home
230: Home
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Downloads
239: Home
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Downloads
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Downloads
250: Downloads
251: Home
252: Home
253: Home
254: Member Screenshots
255: Downloads
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Your Account
260: Home
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Your Account
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Photo Gallery
275: Home
276: Home
277: Member Screenshots
278: Photo Gallery
279: Home
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Member Screenshots
285: Photo Gallery
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Downloads
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Downloads
296: Community Forums
297: Home
298: Home
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Downloads
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Home
317: Member Screenshots
318: Your Account
319: Home
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Member Screenshots
327: Home
328: Downloads
329: Home
330: Community Forums
331: Member Screenshots
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Home
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Photo Gallery
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Home
377: Home
378: Home
379: Downloads
380: Community Forums
381: Downloads
382: Downloads
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Downloads
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Home
397: Community Forums
398: Home
399: Home
400: Home
401: Home
402: Home
403: Home
404: Downloads
405: Member Screenshots
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Member Screenshots
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: News
417: Home
418: Member Screenshots
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Home
422: Home
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Downloads
441: Home
442: Photo Gallery
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Downloads
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Downloads
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Downloads
456: Downloads
457: Member Screenshots
458: Community Forums
459: Downloads
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Home
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Statistics
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Home
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Downloads
477: Community Forums
478: Member Screenshots
479: Member Screenshots
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Member Screenshots
483: Downloads
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Member Screenshots
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Home
496: Home
497: Home
498: Community Forums
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Home
506: Downloads
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Downloads
510: Community Forums
511: Photo Gallery
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: Home
517: Home
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Downloads
521: News Archive
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Home
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Home
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Home
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Downloads
537: Member Screenshots
538: Community Forums
539: Home
540: Home
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Statistics
544: Community Forums
545: Home
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Home
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Home
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Downloads
556: Member Screenshots
557: Home
558: Downloads
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Community Forums
562: Photo Gallery
563: Home
564: Community Forums
565: Photo Gallery
566: Member Screenshots
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Community Forums
570: Home
571: Home
572: Photo Gallery
573: Downloads
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Downloads
580: Downloads
581: Member Screenshots
582: Downloads
583: Home
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Member Screenshots
589: Photo Gallery
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Downloads
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Photo Gallery
597: Downloads
598: Photo Gallery
599: Photo Gallery
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Photo Gallery
603: Home
604: Home
605: Community Forums
606: Home
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Photo Gallery
610: Downloads
611: Community Forums
612: Home
613: Community Forums
614: Downloads
615: Photo Gallery
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Home
620: Community Forums
621: Home
622: Community Forums
623: News
624: Community Forums
625: Home
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Home
629: Home
630: Home
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Home
634: Home
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Home
638: Downloads
639: Home
640: Home
641: Community Forums
642: Home
643: Community Forums
644: Member Screenshots
645: Downloads
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Home
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Home
653: Home
654: News Archive
655: Community Forums
656: Home
657: Home
658: Your Account
659: Home
660: Downloads
661: Community Forums
662: Downloads
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Member Screenshots
670: Community Forums
671: Downloads
672: Home
673: Community Forums
674: Home
675: Photo Gallery
676: Community Forums
677: Home
678: Community Forums
679: Home
680: Home
681: Photo Gallery
682: Downloads
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Downloads
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Downloads
689: Home
690: Community Forums
691: Home
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Home
695: Home
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Photo Gallery
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Home
705: Home
706: Home
707: Statistics
708: Treasury
709: Home
710: Community Forums
711: Downloads
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Home
715: Community Forums
716: Home
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Home
721: Member Screenshots
722: Community Forums
723: Downloads
724: Your Account
725: Community Forums
726: Home
727: Home
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: Home
735: Community Forums
736: Home
737: Community Forums
738: Home
739: Community Forums
740: Member Screenshots
741: Community Forums
742: News
743: Home
744: Home
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Member Screenshots
749: Photo Gallery
750: Home
751: Member Screenshots
752: Community Forums
753: Member Screenshots
754: Photo Gallery
755: Community Forums
756: Home
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Community Forums
760: Member Screenshots
761: Downloads
762: Community Forums
763: Community Forums
764: Community Forums
765: Community Forums
766: Home
767: Contact
768: Downloads
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Downloads
772: Community Forums
773: Community Forums
774: Member Screenshots
775: Home
776: Community Forums
777: Home
778: Photo Gallery
779: Photo Gallery
780: Home
781: Photo Gallery
782: News
783: Community Forums
784: Home
785: Photo Gallery
786: Statistics
787: Community Forums
788: Photo Gallery
789: Community Forums
790: Community Forums
791: Community Forums
792: Home
793: Downloads
794: Community Forums
795: Home
796: Photo Gallery
797: Home
798: News Archive
799: Home
800: Community Forums
801: Home
802: Photo Gallery
803: Community Forums
804: Home
805: Home
806: Community Forums
807: Photo Gallery
808: Downloads
809: Community Forums
810: Photo Gallery
811: Community Forums
812: Community Forums
813: Community Forums
814: News Archive
815: Home
816: Home
817: Home
818: Community Forums
819: Community Forums
820: Downloads
821: Photo Gallery
822: Community Forums
823: Home
824: Community Forums
825: Home
826: Your Account
827: Home
828: Home
829: Home
830: Community Forums
831: Community Forums
832: Your Account
833: Member Screenshots
834: Community Forums
835: Community Forums
836: Community Forums
837: Community Forums
838: Home
839: Community Forums
840: Community Forums
841: Community Forums
842: Community Forums
843: Home
844: Community Forums
845: Community Forums
846: Community Forums
847: News Archive
848: Photo Gallery
849: Community Forums
850: Photo Gallery
851: Community Forums
852: Home
853: Photo Gallery
854: Photo Gallery
855: Home
856: Home
857: News Archive
858: Photo Gallery
859: Community Forums
860: Community Forums
861: Photo Gallery
862: Home
863: Your Account
864: Home
865: Community Forums
866: Community Forums
867: Home
868: Community Forums
869: Home
870: Community Forums
871: LinkToUs
872: Community Forums
873: Community Forums
874: Home
875: Home
876: Community Forums
877: Community Forums
878: Downloads
879: Downloads
880: Home
881: Home
882: Downloads
883: Photo Gallery
884: Photo Gallery
885: Community Forums
886: Community Forums
887: Community Forums
888: Community Forums
889: Community Forums
890: Home
891: Community Forums
892: Photo Gallery
893: Home
894: Downloads
895: Photo Gallery
896: Home
897: Photo Gallery
898: Home
899: Downloads
900: Community Forums
901: Downloads
902: Community Forums
903: Member Screenshots
904: Community Forums
905: Community Forums
906: Home
907: Community Forums
908: Member Screenshots
909: Community Forums
910: Member Screenshots
911: Statistics
912: Community Forums
913: Home
914: Downloads
915: Community Forums
916: News Archive
917: Photo Gallery
918: Community Forums
919: Community Forums
920: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
British names for M4 medium tanks
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 am
Post subject: British names for M4 medium tanks

Hi Folks!

I am working on a listing of British names assigned to the M4 FOV of vehicles.

I am missing one name. While working my way through all the name for the different versions, I notice one vehicle that I have not been able to find a British name for.
I find that odd sense they named vehicles they never used and in a few cases were never build. For one example the M4A6 75mm version rearmed with 17 pdr AT gun!

I can not find a name for one vehicle that was built base on a British idea that just such a vehicle would be needed to attack the West Wall Fortications. The M4A3E2, which after the war became known by the nickname Jumbo.

Did the British miss this one or am I missing something?
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Smashy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 05, 2010
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:57 am
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

I am working on a listing of British names assigned to the M4 FOV of vehicles.

I am missing one name. While working my way through all the name for the different versions, I notice one vehicle that I have not been able to find a British name for.
I find that odd sense they named vehicles they never used and in a few cases were never build. For one example the M4A6 75mm version rearmed with 17 pdr AT gun!



You mean the Sherman VIIC?



I can not find a name for one vehicle that was build base one a British idea that just such a vehicle would be needed to attack the West Wall Fortications. The M4A3E2, which after the war became known by the nickname Jumbo.

Did the British miss this one or am I missing something?


With the availability of the Churchill I don't think the brits saw the need to buy this variant.

_________________
Smashy
Back to top
View user's profile
tankbarrell
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:29 am
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

I doubt the M4A3E2 was ever offered to Britain.
They were all Shermans to the British Army, regardless of type.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

Hi Smashy! Hi Folks!

- Smashy

You mean the Sherman VIIC?


Sorry I guess I wasn't clear enough. I was using it as an example of a vehicle that was build in very limited numbers, never used by any one outside the states, but yet the British named the M4A6 75mm the Sherman Mark VII and then went on to name a M4A6 17 pdr the Sherman Mark VIIC.

- Smashy

With the availability of the Churchill I don't think the brits saw the need to buy this variant.


I can see your point about the Churchill, but the British assigned Mark numbers to every version including all of the ones they did not get/request/never built or used. Another example is the Sherman Mark IIB. A M4A1 with a 105mm how! Because of the gun mount, this was something that was possible, but AFAIK, this version was never put together. Again, the Sherman Mark IVB, the M4A3 with a 105mm how. A version that was built, but they never used.

That is my problem, a version that was built, but one the British never used, and never assigned a Mark number to. So my question about the M4A3E2, Did the British miss this one or am I missing something?

Sgt, Scouts out!!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

Hi Tankbarrell! Hi Folks!

- tankbarrell

I doubt the M4A3E2 was ever offered to Britain.


Very possible, I don't know. I do know the M4A3 75/76s were never offered.

- tankbarrell

They were all Shermans to the British Army, regardless of type.


I would like to suggest you check out "the Sherman, An Illustrated History of the M4 Medium Tank by Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis. A very old book, might be impossible to find.

R.P. Hunnicutt's Sherman, A History of the American Medium Tank has a lot of the British Mark numbers but not all of them. Very costly book now days, maybe the local library might have one.

There are 20 M4 versions the British named "Sherman Mark ### (### = Roman numeral). Counting the M4A3E2 there are 21 versions of the M4 medium tank and there is my problem, 20 Mark numbers, 21 versions.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

Not sure what you are trying to prove. I have compiled a list of all British designations for US medium tanks and related AFVs:
web.inter.nl.net/users...bdesig.htm
"Paper" designations - i.e. given to tanks which were never supplied - are not listed to prevent confusion.

The British used 5 marks of Sherman. There are some sources stating stuff like "Sherman VI - M4A5 (paper designation to prevent confusion with Canadian production)" which is nonsense as the Ram Cruiser tank got the M4A5 paper designation. And "Sherman VII" for M4A6 which was not delivered. Where do the other Mark ### refer to?

HTH,
Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:39 am
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

The M4A3E2 was a Limited Procurement Item for the USA. It may have just been too far out of reach to designate. Things like the M4A6 17lb are not unexpected because it was just extending an existing nomenclature scheme and there was no real harm in designating something that might be coming.

They could've just goofed up. After all, the US designation system used in WW II had been in place for over 10 years when the war started and they still hosed up tank designations. Diesel M3s should have been M3B1s. M4A3s should've been the M4B3. Large hatch hulls, 76mm, 105mm, and HVSS tanks should've been A1s, A2s, A3s, and A4s.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:51 am
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

Hi Hanno! Hi Folks!

- Hanno_Spoelstra

Not sure what you are trying to prove.
"Paper" designations - i.e. given to tanks which were never supplied - are not listed to prevent confusion.
Where do the other Mark ### refer to?
Hanno


I am just trying to fill a couple of gaps. I am putting together a list for the Staff at the Fort Bliss museum to help ex-duck hunters get up speed on AFV facts. I will have to think about your idea for the "Paper" names. I guess I am going over board and maybe I need to cut back to reduce "confusion". The other marks I have are:

Mark IIB M4A1 105mm and IIC 17 pdr
Mark IVA M4A3 76, IVB w/105mm, and IVC w/17 pdr, Where is the M4A3E2 which I am guessing might have been a Mark IVD?
Mark V (Guards) M4A4 75 with Typhoon rocket launcher rails

Most of these came from Chamberlain and Ellis's book.

Still confuzed about the Sherman! PS Thanks for reminding me about your Sherman site.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:35 am
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

- Roy_A_Lingle
I am just trying to fill a couple of gaps. I am putting together a list for the Staff at the Fort Bliss museum to help ex-duck hunters get up speed on AFV facts. I will have to think about your idea for the "Paper" names. I guess I am going over board and maybe I need to cut back to reduce "confusion". The other marks I have are:

Mark IIB M4A1 105mm and IIC 17 pdr
Mark IVA M4A3 76, IVB w/105mm, and IVC w/17 pdr, Where is the M4A3E2 which I am guessing might have been a Mark IVD?
Mark V (Guards) M4A4 75 with Typhoon rocket launcher rails

Most of these came from Chamberlain and Ellis's book.

Still confuzed about the Sherman! PS Thanks for reminding me about your Sherman site.


Hi Roy,

Being confused about the Sherman is understandable. Many people have been and still are. When Chamberlain and Ellis were writing their books not everything was known what we know today. What I am trying to say is that in their time they were good books, but ongoing Sherman research has proven they were wrong in some cases.

Like Kurt says, the people shifting paper in the UK were merely extending an existing nomenclature scheme, and they often did so a long time before the tanks they designated actually became available. Some of the Shermans they made up a designation for never made it into mass production.

So when I compiled my list of British designations for US medium tanks and related AFVs from original source material, I did so with the benefit of hindsight and removed all the ones which did not make it into production and/or actual use. No-one is really interested to know what the paper pushers were dreaming up one day and discarding the next, are they?

If I may give you some advice: please do yourself and the people you are trying to educate a favour, and stick to what has been researched and documented already. Not trying to blow my own trumpet here, but I compiled that list and published it on my website as this information is not (correctly) covered in mainstream books or magazines.

HTH,
Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
tankbarrell
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Tankbarrell! Hi Folks!

- tankbarrell

I doubt the M4A3E2 was ever offered to Britain.


Very possible, I don't know. I do know the M4A3 75/76s were never offered.

- tankbarrell

They were all Shermans to the British Army, regardless of type.


I would like to suggest you check out "the Sherman, An Illustrated History of the M4 Medium Tank by Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis. A very old book, might be impossible to find.

R.P. Hunnicutt's Sherman, A History of the American Medium Tank has a lot of the British Mark numbers but not all of them. Very costly book now days, maybe the local library might have one.

There are 20 M4 versions the British named "Sherman Mark ### (### = Roman numeral). Counting the M4A3E2 there are 21 versions of the M4 medium tank and there is my problem, 20 Mark numbers, 21 versions.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts out!


Thanks, I've had those for over 20 years, about the same number of years I've had my Sherman V!

What I was referring to was your opening statement of ''British names assigned to the M4 FOV of vehicles.''

The only name assigned to the gun tanks was Sherman.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:13 pm
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

I think there is some purpose served with discussing potential designations of variants not actually delivered to the British (or any other user) of a given tank. But in doing that I think the purpose and methodology of those designations needs to be kept in mind

As I interpret the British designations the Roman numeral indicated the primary version similar to the 'A' number of the American designation. The letter following the Roman numeral indicates the main gun installed with C for the 17 pdr being the most frequently seen.

I'm not sure the British used anything similar to the E designator of subtypes that the Americans used.

I think the M4A3E2 was a limited production subtype that were fully allocated so quickly to American units that the British never had a need to create a designation.

All this said I generally agree with Hanno about not confusing newcomers with the esoteric details that may be purely theoretical.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

Hi Tankbarrell! Hi Folks!

- tankbarrell

Thanks, I've had those for over 20 years, about the same number of years I've had my Sherman V!

What I was referring to was your opening statement of ''British names assigned to the M4 FOV of vehicles.''

The only name assigned to the gun tanks was Sherman.


I am sorry Tankbarrel! Now I understand your response and once again my muddy thinking and my poor writting skills have tripped me up.

You own a 1-1 scale Sherman V? I am so jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank You, Sir.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:14 pm
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

Hi Hanno! Hi Folks!

- Hanno_Spoelstra

When Chamberlain and Ellis were writing their books not everything was known what we know today. ...... they were good books, but ongoing Sherman research has proven they were wrong in some cases.


It sounds like it is time to do some house clearing and make the wife happy. It's seams like every book I buy is wrong. O'well I can use the shelfs to display more 1/35 scale models. If my books are wrong, then that means a lot of the models are also wrong?

- Hanno_Spoelstra

No-one is really interested to know what the paper pushers were dreaming up one day and discarding the next, are they?


No-one? I was, that is why I made the mistake of asking, sorry.

- Hanno_Spoelstra

....... and stick to what has been researched and documented already.


I do not have the option any longer of tracking down original source documention and was relaying on published books. Books I am learning are wrong every time I turn around. Books it seams I have wasted my money buying and my time reading. Sorry I bothered you all.
Sgt, Scouts out.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
tankbarrell
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

- Roy_A_Lingle
I am sorry Tankbarrel!


No need Roy, I'm only pulling you leg! Twisted Evil

Yes I do have a Sherman V, restored from a wreck off an artillery range. It took me 4500 hrs of work and several years looking for parts.

Many of the mistakes written in earlier books get copied by later authors. That said, Hunnicutt is the reference, I refer to it all the time. I wouldn't worry about clearing out old books, they have a certain charm, especially when you are aware of the errors!

Back to top
View user's profile
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:28 pm
Post subject: Re: British names for M4 medium tanks

- Roy_A_Lingle
No-one? I was, that is why I made the mistake of asking, sorry.


I am sorry Roy, but I understood you wanted to make a listing of British names assigned to the M4-series AFVs. That is what I provided you with.

Now I understand you (also) want to trace back all the steps taken of how the final result was attained? And have an answer why certain existing subtypes did not get a British designation, while others that did not make it into production did? If you want I can have a look if I still have copies of the material I used (though it might take a while as it is stored away), but I doubt it provides all the answers you're looking for.

Regards,
Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum