±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 223
Total: 223
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Photo Gallery
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Photo Gallery
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Member Screenshots
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: News
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Photo Gallery
29: Photo Gallery
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Photo Gallery
36: Photo Gallery
37: Your Account
38: Photo Gallery
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: CPGlang
43: CPGlang
44: LinkToUs
45: Photo Gallery
46: Home
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Home
55: Home
56: Photo Gallery
57: Photo Gallery
58: Downloads
59: Photo Gallery
60: Photo Gallery
61: Downloads
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Statistics
68: Home
69: Photo Gallery
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Photo Gallery
76: Downloads
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Photo Gallery
86: Member Screenshots
87: Photo Gallery
88: CPGlang
89: Photo Gallery
90: Downloads
91: Photo Gallery
92: Downloads
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Member Screenshots
104: Home
105: CPGlang
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: CPGlang
111: Home
112: Member Screenshots
113: Photo Gallery
114: Home
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Photo Gallery
119: Photo Gallery
120: Photo Gallery
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Home
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Photo Gallery
128: Home
129: Photo Gallery
130: Photo Gallery
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Statistics
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: CPGlang
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Home
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Member Screenshots
153: Community Forums
154: LinkToUs
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Home
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Downloads
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: News
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: Member Screenshots
179: Member Screenshots
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: CPGlang
183: Photo Gallery
184: Home
185: Downloads
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Home
190: Downloads
191: Photo Gallery
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Photo Gallery
196: Your Account
197: Statistics
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Home
209: Photo Gallery
210: Photo Gallery
211: Home
212: Home
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: CPGlang
219: Home
220: Community Forums
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:27 pm
Post subject: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello,

Wiml Dirks pointed something out in an email I received some days ago :

Bruce Crompton, who owns a SdKfz 250, a 251 and what is believed to be an original Jagdpanzer 38(t), participated to a reenactment event at Overloon in May 2010.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/sets/72157623957457977/

Some photos of the interior show the marking "Achtung! Panzerjägerkanone 40 - schiessen ohne Mündungsbremse verboten", which translated, means "Beware! Panzerjäger gun 40 - Fire without the muzzle brake is forbidden"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/4615687815/in/set-72157623957457977/

The problem is that German Jagdpanzer 38(t) don't have muzzle brakes, only G-13s have this feature.

Does it mean that the tank is indeed a G-13, or does it rather mean that the interior was restored like a G-13 interior?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I'd say it's a G13, since only G13s have the muzzle brakes, like you say. The German text must have been put on by the Swiss since it's effectively their primary language (whether officially or not).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

On top of that, original Hetzers had KwK 39 guns, G-13s had StuK 40 guns. So even the number referring to the gun tells it could be a G-13.

But I have to say that usually stencils on swiss tanks are written both in german and french.

I just checked my interior pictures from the G-13 in Schaffhausen, and saw no stencils at all.

I would still hesitate to flag this as G-13. Better put a question mark on it.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
WimD.
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 118
Location: The Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- WimD.
Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.


yes, but the information on my website are not 100% reliable..

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

He has done a good job on it but after spending the past two hours going through every image I have of these vehicles I think I can safely say it was originally a G13/G13D/G14...

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all,

I just saw this topic and I might be able to contribute a bit.

I made the pics in the gallery linked in the first post. The marking in question is indeed incorrect for this vehicle. It is an older restoration and I guess that interior photos from an G-13 (possibly from a manual) were used as a reference. According to the Crompton Collection's chief mechanic (who didn't work on the restoration of the Hetzer), some time in the future it is scheduled to have a rebuild which would include a full repaint inside and out along with a full mechanical overhaul. There are several other restorationprojects in the pipeline that come first though, so it might be a while before it's the Hetzers' turn.

That said, this Hetzer is an original 1944 early production vehicle. It was indeed recovered from the Vilseck barracks where it was buried after the war, together with (I think) a Pz IV. It still has battle scars on mainly the right side from small arms fire and shrapnel. It also has most of the features found on early production vehicles (exhaust route, early pattern roadwheels and first pattern drive sprockets).

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
VonForhud
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Why would someone bury a hetzer and a Mark IV? Lack of fuel?

_________________
hvasnakkerduom.blogspo...wagen.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Pzkpfw-e
I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?

No it isn't, but I don't know who the owner is.


- Pzkpfw-e
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.

That would be the most likely scenario I would say. Although it has lots of battle scars I don't think it got a devasting hit.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

The interior is correct for a Hetzer. might have been incorrectly stenciled. guns, muzzle brakes, cupolas and even turrets can be easily changed and should not be used as the only reference for the model of a particular model of tank.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Tobias Haudenschild forwarded me his observations on this tank. I am posting on his behalf:

According to MY knowledge, it has to be a Swiss G-13. Here are my arguments:

The gun as such seems to be a PAK 39. But the horizontal movement of the PAK 39 (in Hetzers) was achieved by a cardan shaft that is completely missing on this particular vehicle. Besides, all handles and mountings for the gun are identical to the G-13's arrangement.

The firing button (on picture 065) was a Swiss modification (in G-13s it was actually red).

The driver's instrument panel is the one used in G-13s. In the Hetzer the display for water temperature was located on the far left of the panel.

A clear identification could be achieved by checking wheter the vehicle has an escape hatch on the floor of the fighting compartment, as only Swiss G-13s had this hatch...

You were actually right that Swiss G-13s were marked both in German and French on the interior. For sure the interior markings shown in the pictures are not of Swiss origin. They might be an invention of the vehicle's owner.

Altogether I have to say that it is a very fine G-13 to Hetzer conversion that features a lot of details that makes it look like an original Hetzer.


Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/

The Vilseck Pzkpfw IV--Restoration(?) Wheatcroft now the tank stands in the IWM Duxford

Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Andreas
Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/
Andreas

This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic , but perhaps it is one of Wheatcrofts' vehicles?

It could very well be that G-13 interior pictures or manuals and even some parts were (incorrectly) used in or as a reference during the restoration, what would explain the presence of some G-13 parts/details. It does not have an escape hatch.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello David

"This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic "........but it looks very (very) similar!!


Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum