±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 277
Total: 277
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: News
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: CPGlang
05: Member Screenshots
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Home
10: Member Screenshots
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: CPGlang
14: CPGlang
15: CPGlang
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: CPGlang
19: Home
20: CPGlang
21: Home
22: CPGlang
23: CPGlang
24: Home
25: CPGlang
26: CPGlang
27: Home
28: CPGlang
29: CPGlang
30: CPGlang
31: Home
32: Home
33: CPGlang
34: CPGlang
35: Home
36: CPGlang
37: Home
38: CPGlang
39: CPGlang
40: CPGlang
41: CPGlang
42: Home
43: Downloads
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: CPGlang
54: Community Forums
55: CPGlang
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: CPGlang
59: CPGlang
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Home
63: Home
64: Home
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: News
68: CPGlang
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: CPGlang
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: CPGlang
87: CPGlang
88: Home
89: CPGlang
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Home
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Statistics
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: CPGlang
112: Home
113: CPGlang
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: CPGlang
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Statistics
126: Community Forums
127: Your Account
128: Community Forums
129: Statistics
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Downloads
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Member Screenshots
157: CPGlang
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: CPGlang
165: CPGlang
166: CPGlang
167: CPGlang
168: Home
169: CPGlang
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: CPGlang
174: CPGlang
175: CPGlang
176: CPGlang
177: Home
178: Downloads
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: CPGlang
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Home
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Statistics
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: CPGlang
226: Community Forums
227: Your Account
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Supporters
240: Home
241: Photo Gallery
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Downloads
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Your Account
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Downloads
256: Downloads
257: Community Forums
258: Downloads
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: CPGlang
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Downloads
267: Downloads
268: Downloads
269: Home
270: Photo Gallery
271: Statistics
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:27 pm
Post subject: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello,

Wiml Dirks pointed something out in an email I received some days ago :

Bruce Crompton, who owns a SdKfz 250, a 251 and what is believed to be an original Jagdpanzer 38(t), participated to a reenactment event at Overloon in May 2010.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/sets/72157623957457977/

Some photos of the interior show the marking "Achtung! Panzerjägerkanone 40 - schiessen ohne Mündungsbremse verboten", which translated, means "Beware! Panzerjäger gun 40 - Fire without the muzzle brake is forbidden"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/4615687815/in/set-72157623957457977/

The problem is that German Jagdpanzer 38(t) don't have muzzle brakes, only G-13s have this feature.

Does it mean that the tank is indeed a G-13, or does it rather mean that the interior was restored like a G-13 interior?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I'd say it's a G13, since only G13s have the muzzle brakes, like you say. The German text must have been put on by the Swiss since it's effectively their primary language (whether officially or not).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

On top of that, original Hetzers had KwK 39 guns, G-13s had StuK 40 guns. So even the number referring to the gun tells it could be a G-13.

But I have to say that usually stencils on swiss tanks are written both in german and french.

I just checked my interior pictures from the G-13 in Schaffhausen, and saw no stencils at all.

I would still hesitate to flag this as G-13. Better put a question mark on it.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
WimD.
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 118
Location: The Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- WimD.
Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.


yes, but the information on my website are not 100% reliable..

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

He has done a good job on it but after spending the past two hours going through every image I have of these vehicles I think I can safely say it was originally a G13/G13D/G14...

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all,

I just saw this topic and I might be able to contribute a bit.

I made the pics in the gallery linked in the first post. The marking in question is indeed incorrect for this vehicle. It is an older restoration and I guess that interior photos from an G-13 (possibly from a manual) were used as a reference. According to the Crompton Collection's chief mechanic (who didn't work on the restoration of the Hetzer), some time in the future it is scheduled to have a rebuild which would include a full repaint inside and out along with a full mechanical overhaul. There are several other restorationprojects in the pipeline that come first though, so it might be a while before it's the Hetzers' turn.

That said, this Hetzer is an original 1944 early production vehicle. It was indeed recovered from the Vilseck barracks where it was buried after the war, together with (I think) a Pz IV. It still has battle scars on mainly the right side from small arms fire and shrapnel. It also has most of the features found on early production vehicles (exhaust route, early pattern roadwheels and first pattern drive sprockets).

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
VonForhud
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Why would someone bury a hetzer and a Mark IV? Lack of fuel?

_________________
hvasnakkerduom.blogspo...wagen.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Pzkpfw-e
I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?

No it isn't, but I don't know who the owner is.


- Pzkpfw-e
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.

That would be the most likely scenario I would say. Although it has lots of battle scars I don't think it got a devasting hit.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

The interior is correct for a Hetzer. might have been incorrectly stenciled. guns, muzzle brakes, cupolas and even turrets can be easily changed and should not be used as the only reference for the model of a particular model of tank.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Tobias Haudenschild forwarded me his observations on this tank. I am posting on his behalf:

According to MY knowledge, it has to be a Swiss G-13. Here are my arguments:

The gun as such seems to be a PAK 39. But the horizontal movement of the PAK 39 (in Hetzers) was achieved by a cardan shaft that is completely missing on this particular vehicle. Besides, all handles and mountings for the gun are identical to the G-13's arrangement.

The firing button (on picture 065) was a Swiss modification (in G-13s it was actually red).

The driver's instrument panel is the one used in G-13s. In the Hetzer the display for water temperature was located on the far left of the panel.

A clear identification could be achieved by checking wheter the vehicle has an escape hatch on the floor of the fighting compartment, as only Swiss G-13s had this hatch...

You were actually right that Swiss G-13s were marked both in German and French on the interior. For sure the interior markings shown in the pictures are not of Swiss origin. They might be an invention of the vehicle's owner.

Altogether I have to say that it is a very fine G-13 to Hetzer conversion that features a lot of details that makes it look like an original Hetzer.


Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/

The Vilseck Pzkpfw IV--Restoration(?) Wheatcroft now the tank stands in the IWM Duxford

Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Andreas
Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/
Andreas

This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic , but perhaps it is one of Wheatcrofts' vehicles?

It could very well be that G-13 interior pictures or manuals and even some parts were (incorrectly) used in or as a reference during the restoration, what would explain the presence of some G-13 parts/details. It does not have an escape hatch.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello David

"This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic "........but it looks very (very) similar!!


Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum